But isn't it a hoot to watch? Great with your morning coffee! it's a hoot, but it ain't close to real. some of the TVRMonster track vids are a hoot and they are real. better, they're Rover / Buick powered. http://www.tvrmonster.co.uk/videos.html
Here are some more photos of the new exhaust system. It has 2-1/4" stainless pipes all the way back, a pair of glass packs with an aggressive core and a set of Supra resonators. Should sound right good and be reasonably low restriction. Jim
Only 14 days left before the meet, and though the car is coming together it is doubtful that we will fire it up before then but even so it'll be close enough that if the guys want to spend a little time on it there they may get to participate in the initial run up. The basic motor is together and installed. I'm working on an alternator mount and there are a lot of little items to take care of like the distributor, plugs and wires, power, carb base gasket, helicoil for one carb bolt, and of course the radiator. I'm firmly convinced that the radiator we have for the car is inadequate and I've mocked one up in cardboard. This would be a double pass cross flow with around 230 - 250 sq. in. of surface area, perhaps in a 2 row aluminum construction. I hope that will be enough, anybody have some advice on that? It won't be driveable because our throwout bearing is 1/4" too long, but if I can get a driveshaft in it we might be able to put it on a dyno. The guys would like that. Personally I could give a lesser damn. Numbers mean nothing to me. If you are getting everything out of the engine that is reasonable with your best tuning efforts the mission is accomplished whether it's 50 or 5000. In this case we are way beyond reasonable as long as the engine runs. So dyno numbers don't mean squat. But if it makes them happy I'm all for it. So if I end up with enough time to do it I'll weld up a driveshaft so they can play. But no driving. We don't have brakes. Well, except for the emergency brake that is. Jim
:eek2: After that, I'm going to start to leave to go to work MUCH earlier now! I saw the "remastered" credits at the end. Reminded me of what an old "Febus Films" would have looked like in the 70's Good luck on the MG project. :TU: ElectraJim
I've been trying to sort out the radiator. Can anybody give me an idea of the minimum radiator requirements in terms of surface area and thickness? Jim Weise estimated we'll be putting out 500 hp, torque about the same, and we're looking at a 5000-5500 redline. There's not a whole lot of space to work with and I'll have to be creative so it'd really help a lot if I knew what numbers I shouldn't go below. Jim
Thanks Devon, it surely does. Using that rule of thumb I think I'd want around 460 square inches of fin area. I can at least work with that. Jim
Back from the meet and it sure was something. Rather than retype everything or leave you a link I'm going to try to cut and paste the text from my report on the BritishV8 site. Unfortunately the pictures didn't copy and you can't link to them from outside but here is the thread for anyone who wants to see the pictures: http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?2,166,page=35 Yes, what Rick said. A few items of interest. The day at Flying Circus was very good for us. Not only did we get to put the car up on the lift so that one and all could inspect it from every angle, not only did we meet the representatives from Grassroots Motorsports who took a great interest in the project (Let's all be watching for their next issue to see if they mention us), but before we left we had an answer to our wheel and tire dilemma. Having ridden over in the tow vehicle, Steve DeGroat was over by the car selling T-shirts to help raise money for the project, Bill Young, Bill Guzman and I were over by the banquet table (betcha didn't see that one coming) debating the lug nut sizes on the car when I suggested we just look at them. Since we had no measuring tools with us Bill G was going to measure the stud diameter with his "stud" (according to Bill Y) and I wasn't touching that one at all. But as it turned out we had a full set of lug nuts so there were no exposed studs to be seen. Ever ready to help I suggested we just look at one on the parts cars parked nearby and we'd no more than set off in that direction when I spied a nice looking set of 17" wheels and announced, "We need those wheels!" "MAX!!!" "WHERE"S MAX!!!!" "WE NEED THESE WHEELS!!!" Max was soon found, convinced, and went off to find Toby and we were soon trying them on for size while I asked Toby what sort of a deal we could make. Now I'd like to point out that I left a lot out concerning all parties involved, Including Toby's accidental answering of the initial question that sent us on the quest in the first place. We learned we have BOTH sizes of lug nuts on the car, 7/16 on the Malibu hubs and 1/2" on the Jag ones. But more to the point, after a short consultation Toby came back and said he'd like to contribute the wheels and tires to the project! Someone later tentatively identified these as Jaguar XK8 wheels, they fit well, will let us run decent sized rubber, and clear the brakes so I'd say we owe a big thanks to Flying Circus for helping us out here. We loaded the tires up in the GT and since cars were beginning to leave, went ahead and trailered the car, after which I got artwork from Toby, again expressed our thanks and headed back to the Motel. Anybody notice something missing in this story? Yep, sure enough after we unloaded the car in the motel parking lot I realized I didn't have a chair to sit in. So I called Carl who was still back at the Circus helping repair a member's car. Said, Carl I have a favor to ask. "So do we." I left my chairs. "That ain't all you left! You left the T-shirts, the table, your HAT, and what about STEVE?!!!" I guess the excitement was just too much for me. Steve was good natured about it, but I don't expect I've heard the end of that episode. Everything got worked out, and best of all, WE GOT WHEELS!!!! Very nice ones at that. There's a lot more to tell and I hope some others will jump in here and share. Stories about racing, partying, and all the rest. For now I should probably stick to the project. Anyway we couldn't possibly have hoped for a better outcome in the tech session. Who knows, we might even get some good publicity from it. But at the very least we sold shirts, raised donations, showed off the car from every angle, and GOT WHEELS!!! (I'm still a little excited about that.) Dave Van Wyck's beautiful exhaust system was a work of art and a real big hit by the way, with comments like, "That's the first time I've EVER seen the exhaust run over the half shaft, it looks great!" (Bill G.) Back at the motel we continued discussions on various aspects of the car and it soon became pretty obvious to most of us that there were a couple of guys who really knew their stuff when it came to cooling systems, and the result was that our noble Secretary, Graham Crestwick and our honored benefactor Curtis Jacobson agreed to come up with some specific recommendations on the radiator and fan setup for the car. These men have my full faith and confidence, if anyone in our group is able to get us a suitable cooling package it would be these guys. We had the second annual meeting of the British American Deviant Automotive Sports-car Society outdoors amid strong attendance. Pete Mantell was good enough to set up his scales and we weighed the car. As you can plainly see, the results are pretty consistent with what we've been seeing in many of our conversions, and not much different from a stock MGB. Now admittedly we still have to add some weight. Radiator, battery, seats and dashboard still to come plus front calipers, coolant and some fuel. But it looks like our 2500# target is well within reach. Another target was to have the car running by this year's meet and strictly speaking we were a little short, but so close that in principal that I announced the goal accomplished. In truth though we *could* have fired up the engine we're better off waiting to put a good radiator in the car. Two final things and then I'll finish up. First, we did take a sharpie and write all over the car. Contributor's names, sponsor's logos, funny comments, I'd love to post a photo but since all we had was black it doesn't show up too well. But this is a tradition that we need to continue at least up until the time that we put a quality paint job on the car, and perhaps beyond. so those who plan to be at Pete's cook out, bring your markers! Finally, the last thing I want to mention is money. This time it's good news! We all know the struggle we've had to finance this project, the corners we've cut to stretch the dollar. And we've done exceptionally well. Maybe at some point Steve can give us an idea of how much actual money we've spent on the car or maybe not but by any estimate it is going to be well below the cost of a comparable or even an average conversion. We came into the meet owing Dale nearly $500 for hard parts which he had bought for us to be able to complete the heads. After contributions and T-shirt sales we came away with around $1200, and this was after we paid back what we owed to Dale! Rick Ingram once again leapt into the breach, with a pledge that Dale would not go home empty handed. Well, not only did he not go home unpaid, he sponsored us even further by putting a certificate worth $500 in machine work in the Banquet auction. That certificate sold for $300 which went directly into the Deviants general funds and the winner took home quite a bargain. Those of us who bid but did not win all agreed we would, any one of us, have gone much higher had we an immediate need, and even so coveted the prize. I could go on and on. The Banquet and auction itself is always the high point of the meet and this year was exceptional. (Except for Steve Carrick stealing my water glass) But some of those stories are for others to tell and I'll leave you now with this thought. Progress on this project has been nothing short of phenomenal and we fully expect to drive the car next year. Some changes are in the works, in September it will probably go to Mantell Motorsports where a different group can easily come into play and it may travel more after that. But the thing to remember is that this is your car. It isn't mine, or Steve's or Pete's, and for us to reach our goals which sooner than later will have us enjoying the fruits of our labors we need to pull together as a team. But just as importantly, we are a family. We share a closeness and cohesiveness almost never seen in organizations of this type. That, more than anything else that we've done is something to be cherished and nurtured. GO DEVIANTS!!! Jim <script type="text/javascript"> //<![CDATA[ var iba_elt; iba_elt = document.getElementById("in_body_attachment_3354"); if (iba_elt) iba_elt.onload = function() { if (window.in_body_attachments_resizeimage) in_body_attachments_resizeimage(this); } iba_elt = document.getElementById("in_body_attachment_3355"); if (iba_elt) iba_elt.onload = function() { if (window.in_body_attachments_resizeimage) in_body_attachments_resizeimage(this); } iba_elt = document.getElementById("in_body_attachment_3356"); if (iba_elt) iba_elt.onload = function() { if (window.in_body_attachments_resizeimage) in_body_attachments_resizeimage(this); } //]]> </script>
Steve came in on Thursday and for the next couple of days we busied ourselves with foraging and the braking system as well as properly securing the wheels. We got the correct lug nuts eventually, and Keyston/Marmon gave us some square tubing. There were modifications needed to mount the master cylinder that included a cut to the bulkhead shelf for brake arm clearance (we rounded the edge over for the 'proper' appearance) drilling of mounting holes, and fabrication of a new actuator rod and clevis, and while Steve worked on that I began on the radiator support structure. By the time Max and Dan got here Friday evening, Steve and I had put in a couple of full days and had just sat down with a cold one to relax and plan the next day. That didn't go according to plan.... I've noticed that usually once the beer is brought out that marks the end of the work day, but in this case that didn't work either. Apparently Dan and Max were just plain tired of sitting. Or excited at the prospect of working on the car, or both. Whatever the reason, we didn't knock off until well after 2 am, and it didn't get any better when Carl showed up the next day! I gotta tell you, these guys were so gung-ho about firing this thing up that I had to tell them when it was time to eat and time to quit. Now that's not a good thing. I'm terrible about scheduling, and if it weren't for Edith calling me and asking when we planned to eat, I'm not sure we ever would have. As a matter of fact, after she left Sunday to visit the family we kept at it until well into the afternoon with nary a thought of lunch, even though it was sitting there waiting on us. I'm not complaining, but if you're wondering how we did what we did, that was it. We really kicked it into high gear. As of this point, the dashboard is wired and in the car (not bolted down yet) and most of the gages work. Most of the electrical system is sorted out, thanks to Max and Carl and we have notes on what still needs attention. This is with the old wiring system of course, which we will use until the car is painted, at which time Steve Carrick (Advance Auto Wire) will upgrade it. Dan and Steve got the throttle system up to snuff, making linkages, and sorting out a myriad of other details, such as spark plug wiring and on and on. There is no way I could keep it straight as to who did what, because it was like a well orchestrated game of musical chairs. I mean, these guys are talented, and it was nothing to see all of them working on any one part of the car at different times, and sometimes all at once. The key thing is that with the clear goal of firing off the engine and being able to do a sustained run for break in, every task needed to make that happen was accomplished by Saturday evening. And there was a lot. Fuel pump and lines, tank filler neck, hoses, coolant, surge tank, battery cables, and many other small tasks. At long last we stood in readiness, and as you can see from the video the engine fired right up! The run wasn't perfect, we have a serious lean condition and we glowed the headers rather quickly and shut down. A couple of quick changes to the timing smoothed out the engine quite a lot, and a change from #67 to #72 primary jets helped but there is still a good ways to go. The jet change took a good solid hour to accomplish, maybe more even with Carl's and Max's assistance, and after that I simply refused to endure that ordeal any more, so that was the end of our tuning efforts for this weekend. After seeing what was required to change QuadraJet main jets none of the others wanted to take it on either, and the only reason I did it the first time was to demonstrate just what a horrible task it is. Steve had wisely called it a night before we tore down the spare Q-Jet he had brought along in order to get the jets, as he was rolling out about 5 in the morning. Sorry Steve, we didn't put it back together. The rest of us kept at it until the wee hours yet again, and put a serious hurt on the beer supply in the process. Sunday we were all up bright and early, and my great appreciation goes out to these guys for their efforts in tidying up the shop before heading for home. I know Steve and I had made a bit of a mess by the time the rest had arrived, and the shop was no showplace when Steve got there, so they left it much better than they found it. As for my overall impressions of the startup, it was simply awesome! Kevin mentioned that he thought it would have been louder, but any u-tube video of a car running tends to be underwhelming and understated. I will say this, the exhaust note is as good as I could have possibly hoped for and much better than I had expected. Dave VanWyck didn't let us down. As a street car it will be quiet enough to be a comfortable driving machine and will bark when wanted. If the rest of the car lives up to this part we've really got a show stopper on our hands. Despite the poor initial tune the engine is very smooth. Oil pressure is great, in fact during pre-oiling there was so little drag on the drill that we had our doubts that the gage was reading accurately, but when running we showed a solid 45 psi and more. Regrettably we weren't able to sustain a run long enough for proper cam break-in, that will have to wait for proper carb calibration, and that brings up a thorny question. What to do about the carb? I will not do another Q-Jet main jet change. I simply refuse. I realize there are people who like those carbs but I am not one of them and I do not and never will understand how such a thing is even remotely possible. I'll happily change the carb, but if I NEVER so much as even SEE another Q-Jet main jet it will be several lifetimes too soon. Holley, Edelbrock, no problem, but no more of this. Now Dave Kirkman will be here next weekend and he may be able to get us special pricing on an Edelbrock replacement carb. My recommendation is to go with that and do the break-in run next weekend. What say you? Jim
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We have a Camaro fan that looks like it'll work pretty well. A little tight in a spot or two but overall a pretty good fit. I'm just about done with my part of this project. We've done what we set out to do, prove that it could be done and make a presentable, driveable, enjoyable sports car with great power. There are a great number of refinements that can be made but others in the group are better suited to making those refinements than I am. In September the car goes to a new temporary home. We will transport it to Mantell Motorsports in Illinois where the process of refinement will begin, with the car to be on the street by next summer's meet. I am ecstatic to be handing over the reins to Pete Mantell, though for the time being I will remain president of the Deviants. Over the course of the next year we will decide what will be done in terms of paint and such, probably in the following year I'd guess, after which the rotation schedule begins. I very much look forward to being able to sit in and drive the car on the street next year and Pete has my full support. Plus a big thanks to everyone here who has helped make this happen. Maybe by next summer we'll even have some performance specs on the car. Jim
Yeah, me too. We had a great weekend out at Pete's place, took the car out, drove it around the yard a couple times and put a set of fiberglass front fenders on it. Pete will handle the work parties until next summer's meet and I'll continue to handle the more administrative matters to help smooth the road ahead. Jim
Just to let you guys know, another work weekend has been scheduled for weekend of the 14th of November, at Mantell Motorsports in Sydney, Ill. We should have a pretty good crew present. Pete, Rick, Me, Steve, Dan, Dave and possibly others. Anyone from here who would like to come is most welcome. (I also have 3 t-shirts left in XL size which I plan to bring along.) There is space for camping and possibly indoors accommodations as well. We plan to rework the radiator support, sort out the clutch linkage, brakes and whatever other items we decide to work on and then we will probably drive it up and down the road for testing. Jim
Jim, Is this car to be raced? If so, I would think venues like the "Maxton", "Silver State Classic", etc., would be good for promotional mileage? Good Job, roverman.
I'm sure that once it goes on rotation that someone will put it on the 1/4 mile to get a strip time, and it will probably see a road coarse or two at some point. Steve may even take it to Maxton. But it is most emphatically NOT a race car. It is a street machine and the our stated objective in creating this car and soon in sending it around the country is as a promotional tool, to educate the younger generations about little British cars, old American iron, and the synergistic mating of the two. That is our sport and that is what we want to promote. As such it would be a real shame to go out and tear it up on a race track (the chance is always there of course, no matter how careful you are) and considering the quality of the paint, the seats, and some of the other features it just can't be justified. We will regularly run it in the autocross however. Jim
