If there is any professional HVAC ppl on here I could really use some solid advice. If your near mansfield ohio there might be work to be done. But an over view, the compressor in my heat pump has failed. This is an older 10 seer setup. I know these are older units but a full replacement I'm sure is way beyond my budget. I know I can get drop in replacement compressors for this trane system for about 700. I know it will need a new big directional filter, it only makes since to me to replace the start cap, and maybe relay. My questions involved around flushing the old system. Please pm a contact number and best time to call, thanks
Depending on the type of failure your compressor had will decide what clean up will be needed. If it was mechanical I just replace the compressor/ filter / drier . Pressure test, evac and charge. If it was a burn out I do the same but add a bottle of "acid away" into the compressor to neutralize and acidic oil left in the system. If this 10 SEER unit was any other brand than Trane I'd tell ya not to bother with the comp replacement.
How does one tell which way the compressor failed. This unit was installed in 02, compressor was previously replaced in 13. I had the orginal installing local HVAC company........they also replaced the compressor in 13......come out last week. I already knew the compressor was bad, it tripped the breaker, I was hoping I would get lucky and it just be the upper fan motor.......even though it shows signs of heat, it spun freely and when I unhooked the wiring, reset the breaker and turn on the stat, you could hear the compressor electrically tried to run but it very quickly tripped the breaker again. I wanted the HVAC ppl to look the rest if unit over, I know the reversing valve can be a chore to replace.........even after I asked him to look at everything farther he said there's no point. The charged me 80 bucks for less than 15 mins of his time and all he did was pull the compressor wiring off, hook it to a box that had a string of led light and it said bad......so I assumed it just measured the resistance. But I really wanted to make sure the rest of the unit is solid enough to invest mo et in. Well today they came back with the quote, 2000 for labor, compressor, start relay, start cap and filter, 300-400 to evacuate and test for acid and particulates, and 300-400 to flush if needed. Plus whatever the r22 cost Sounds slightly higher me Now I have no experience with home units, but know alot about auto, and I would never ever install a new compressor without flushing the system. If I look thr number up off the compressor I find several direct replacements for about 700. Compressor number is al24a-cd1-aa https://allaroundindustrysupply.com...-r22r407c-23300-btu-208230-1-60-poe-oiltrane/ Or a direct trane for 835 on Evil bay https://www.ebay.com/c/1540670248 They also quote replacement which they quoted completely replacing both the inside and outside units at over 7000.?????? I understand why you cant put a seet 13,14,16, etc outside unit on a seer 10 evap coil, the shear volume of refrigerant needed to be held is a mismatch..........so in one mode it would run like underfilled, the over it would run like overfilled. Why cant they put put s seet 13 evap coil inside my furnace unit?????? Everything in there works as should right now Then we get to the next set if questions, if someone had access to r22, an r22 vac pump and gauge set.........ig this person had common sense and some experience in auto ac........should they be able to perform this themselves. Now this person has never soldered copper pipe, but is will to buy pieces to try and learn, and this person would also need some advice on flushing techniques It makes since if I'm doing this to replace the start relay and cap, and outside fan motor just for everything to good to go. The records I have show they put 5 lbs freon in when the replaced the compressor.........but no clue if that was a top off or full charge or how much of what kind of oil is needed. I know I ask too many questions and this would be easier over phone
How about using 407C instead of R22? Much cheaper. I went through something like this last year with a train unit.
I get around 1800.00 average out the door to replace a compressor. parts are 500 - 800. Trane compressors cost a bit more. You could swap in a Copland compressor of the same size, do a bit of creative plumbing to make it all line up for a little less. Sounds like the unit s compressor went to ground ,so electrically shorted which means the oil is contaminated. When this happens the unit shuts down instantly so theres little chance the contamination spread through the system. Could it be done DYI, maybe. Would I advise it NO. Its gone through 3 compressors I'd suspect there is a problem somewhere in the system. Id do the complete job for around 6K if I was in your area.
...not an HVAC person but a competent DIYer, and know what you're trying to do. Briz nailed issue with "3 compressors." You have to consider may be "bad money" to try another compressor fix. Wish Briz lived "in my area"...
Well that's what I was worried about, the 1st compressor made it 11 years, this one 6. That doesn't add up to me. Am I wrong in thinking they should be able to just put a newer coil inside my indoor unit and replace the outside.........there isn't anything wrong with the inside unit........ If I do just a compressor to 700-800 for a direct replacement part is ok an reasonable.......I know dries, start relays and cap cant be another 200ish. The 1800 more for labor that doesn't include the freon, for a job that wont take 4 hrs.......I think is crazy
Ben, Check parts prices with these guys. https://m.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/store77/home.ep Chris
Steve and I live about 60 miles apart. He's a good AC contractor and so am I. I do agree with Steve, if you've gone through three compressors there's an issue causing the problem and I would not put any more money in it. I would never install a heat pump though. They are just not worth it. Put in a straight cool and use natural gas heat or electric heat strips. Nowhere near the headaches of a heat pump down the line and the electricity savings just ain't worth it. Also if you do go for a new unit do not let the contractor install a frequency drive/variable speed air handler motor (way too expensive to replace) although all new units come with a ten year warranty. Tell them you want a PSC (permanent split capacitor motor). Throwing $1800-$2000 at a unit almost twenty years old is not the way to go. If you fix it there are plenty of r-22 substitutes, do not use r-22 anymore. Shame you're so far away. Mikey
Its ate 2 compressor in its life. There is natural gas in the area but not in my house. They want a small fortune to install it......so that's out. Right the system is an electric furnace which is crazy expensive to let run, the heat pump, and I installed a pellet furnace into the ductwork. When I first got the house we had a 300 dollar electric bill and we were not living in the house, stat was only set on 50 since we were just doing work inside b4 moving in. In my headvthst would be close to 600 a month when cold.........we dont spend 600 a year on pellets. I know there is no way in hell I can afford to replace both the inside and outside units new........its just not going to happen Below is pic of outside sticker, from what I can tell this is a 2 ton 11 seer unit. So i know it's a bandaid, but unless a i can find a new condensing unit just sitting around stil . I think the best option for my budget might be a know good used unit. But right now it might be what we can swing and at least get the system up and going. I know the rest of the system needs flushed, but is there any harm in putting a different make used outside unit on.......can i use a 2.5 or 3 ton? There is used xe1000......same as mine but older unit within reason drive for a few hundred......its build date is 95, mine is 99. I know the r22 is bad to use anymore.......but I happen to have new in box 30lb tank of it in my shop........so there is no cost to use it to me. Thanks for all the info
That's a shame - We looked at a house a few years ago and there was gas on the street but not to that house. They quoted me right over the phone with just the address and granted it was a residential neighborhood so not a long run, but still the price was very reasonable. Where my business is we have four (4) 60" gas mains (I believe - They're major east coast supply lines for Colonial pipeline) running through the property and incredibly whenever the rights were sold to run them no one thought to make them include a tap for the property which is in a very rural area but has a large industrial building on it. We were looking at installing furnaces for heating aluminum ingots and a heat treating setup for a big contract (which we didn't subsequently get unfortunately). They wanted $250k to do the tap, which would've been a no-brainer given what we were looking to do (contract was worth hundreds of millions of $) but said that the gas would be as close to free as we could ever get. I'm not a HVAC guy but have been in similar situations (for example fixing my dishwasher now) where you just have to throw what you know is good $ after bad - Sounds like on the surface that maybe the system wasn't properly flushed/sucked down, etc. last time or the replacement compressor wasn't as good. I'm sure you'd be happy to get 3 years out of it this time. Might check CL &/or feEbay too for a compressor or unit. I know Briz said he doesn't recommend it but you do know automotive HVAC so you get the principles and you have the refrigerant (I have gauges and a vac. pump - I'd attempt it I think). Sweating pipe is no sweat (pun intended) although I've been doing it strictly with acetylene for as long as I can remember and have never as far as I remember had a bad joint including a lot of 1-¼" 125 psi air joints and recently had a couple ½" joints to do on what should've been a super easy job in my basement and my acetylene torch was @ my shop. I had a propane torch @ home and damn if I didn't have one heck of a time. Maybe it was me, but for someone who doesn't do this for a living I've soldered a lot of pipe - Never again. Trick is to heat the fitting so the solder gets pulled into the joint and I always have a wet rag handy and before the solder solidifies (have to be quick) "wipe" the joint to schmear the molten solder around - Looks nice & could potentially fill a pinhole. And don't be afraid to give the fitting a little bit of a crimp if you have a lot of joints and they won't stay put while fitting up the whole thing. The solder will still get in there. Good luck!
it is a 2 ton R22 unit made in 2002 which makes it 18 years old. I've seen Trane units running 30 years. 2 things are most common to early compressor failure. Bad duct work or restricted / undersize line est. Id look at both of these before you make any repairs
Ok so what size lines should be there, the ductwork is all 8x12 tube. Never any icing issues, never seemed like it didnt perform well. It is a split level home so I do have to do opening and closing and that of certain events to get the house to be more even, plus the fan in the main air handler runs 24/7/365. It's the only way to keep balance of temp in the house
Today a 2 ton unit requires 3/4" on the suction side and 3/8 on the liquid line. If the installer way back in the day kinked the line somewhere along the run and covered it up with insulation you'd like;ly never find it and that in itself will cause issues. Another is crap in the line set plugging up metering devises. When copper is heated it leaves a black flakey coating on the surface. the hotter it gets the more stuff. It also collects on the inside. When a line set is brazed together it should be done with a nitrogen purge to prevent that. Having all the ducts open will insure that the air flow is where it needs to be. It could be a poor design and restrictive. return is more important than supply in that respect.
Hey briz. Are all xe1000 able to work with heat pump or were some just ac only. Found this, is it a match. I see it says it takes the same inside unit.......but different freon volume?
And the air handler.......aka the inside part???? I thought for some reason there was a difference between a straight ac outside unit and a heat pump outside unit I'm at this point not planning on replacing the inside unit..........my lineset has no visible kinks........its actually a pretty straight run,
Air handler dont care what its hooked to as long as its the same capacity as the out door unit or a 1/2 ton (6000 btu) larger
I would assume my inside is rated for the same 2 ton since they were installed new at the same time by an authorized dealer. The one unit is a heat pump outside unit but it's only 1.5 tons........not sure that's big enough for house......its 1550 sqft split level
