Aluminum and Iron Head 455 Builts- Parts and power comparisions

Looks familiar! Got the pump today should have it fired up this weekend.
Thanks

 

Maybe I will try this question here.

I need some guidance on which build you would go with, suggestions on cams. Street strip car, 65 skylark, built 2004r 3200 stall
This site is a great resource for guys like me. Thanks

Short Block
1976 block, Deck Height .040, All oil mods 3 oclock cam oiling
AM&P Stage 1 Plus Street Reciprocating Assembly, Rods are .020 longer than stock
Pro/Tru 4.35 pistons 8.34cc Flat Top
TA 298H .520/.520 241/241 110LC 4 degrees advance?
TA Front Cover
TA SP1 intake
850 or 950 holley??
Edelbrock heads 68cc Gessler Level 2 porting Intake Flow: @.500 297, @.550 301
Exhaust Flow: @.500 185, @.550 189

Static Compression: 10.88
Dynamic Compression: 7.91

Advertised Duration (Typically at 0.006 Lift) 298
Cam Intake Centerline 110
Cam Advance/Retard (Negative for Retard) 4
Bore 4.35
Stroke 3.9
Number of Cylinders 8
Rod Length 6.62
Deck Height 0.04
Head Gasket Compressed Thickness 0.04
Head Gasket Bore 4.4
Head Chamber Volume 68
Piston Dish CC (Negative for raised dish) 8.34


OR

Short Block
1976 block, Deck Height .005, All oil mods 3 oclock cam oiling
AM&P Stae 1 Plus Street Reciprocating Assembly, Rods are .020 longer than stock
Pro/Tru 4.35 pistons 22cc Dished
Comp Cam 280 236/241 .553/.548 4 degrees advance?
TA Front Cover
TA SP1 intake
850 or 950 holley??
Edelbrock heads 68cc Gessler Level 2 porting Intake Flow: @.500 297, @.550 301
Exhaust Flow: @.500 185, @.550 189

Static Compression: 10.38
Dynamic Compression: 8.05

Advertised Duration (Typically at 0.006 Lift) 280
Cam Intake Centerline 112
Cam Advance/Retard (Negative for Retard) 4
Bore 4.35
Stroke 3.9
Number of Cylinders 8
Rod Length 6.62
Deck Height 0.005
Head Gasket Compressed Thickness 0.04
Head Gasket Bore 4.4
Head Chamber Volume 68
Piston Dish CC (Negative for raised dish) 22

 

Just as a suggestion I would use a 800 Q jet and not a Holley. The last two cars we saw track time report on and a dyno report on the big Holley made little difference over the Q jet. JW just did a dyno test on an engine using both. The Q jet is street friendly.

 

On my engine using a Holley HP1000 made more HP earlier but the TQ1000 had a higher peak HP (3) but used alot less fuel to make that power. My car is 90% street and will have a race blend gas so I am picking the TQ1000. My engine really liked the spacer and 36 timing.

 

Choice is clear #2, cam match with head flow, better quench, slight power increase and more streetable.

 

the first combo will make more power, due to the higher compression ratio and more intake duration.

Might not be as freindly on the street with idle manners, but we have done it in the past, possibly a vac res will be needed for 100% operation of the brakes at all times..

I would put the dished pistons in the first combo, and have the decks cut to near zero clearance, and set the compression ratio at 10.5 to 1 via combustion chamber size.

Or..

Build the second combo, and have Greg switch to his level 3 port on TA heads.

More cylinder head means more power, with less compromise..


JW

 

Ok what about this TA290-08HL This car will see more street time than strip
2004r with 3.73's Looks like 10.38 SCR and 7.71 DCR

Short Block
1976 block, Deck Height .005, All oil mods 3 oclock cam oiling
AM&P Stae 1 Plus Street Reciprocating Assembly, Rods are .020 longer than stock
Pro/Tru 4.35 pistons 22cc Dished
TA 290-08HL 238/248 .540/.560 4 degrees advance
TA Front Cover
TA SP1 intake
850 or 950 holley??
Edelbrock heads 68cc Gessler Level 2 porting Intake Flow: @.500 297, @.550 301
Exhaust Flow: @.500 185, @.550 189

Static Compression: 10.38
Dynamic Compression: 7.71

Advertised Duration (Typically at 0.006 Lift) 290
Cam Intake Centerline 112
Cam Advance/Retard (Negative for Retard) 4
Bore 4.35
Stroke 3.9
Number of Cylinders 8
Rod Length 6.62
Deck Height 0.005
Head Gasket Compressed Thickness 0.04
Head Gasket Bore 4.4
Head Chamber Volume 68
Piston Dish CC (Negative for raised dish) 22

 

Jim,

Is it possible for you to share some of this type of experience to the 350 crowd. We would love to understand what type of flow we can get from the iron heads and what your opinion is on some of your builds/cam/carbs.

I think the 350 crowd is waiting for a savior and a engine builder like yourself could help point the direction.

Just a hopeful plea.

 

Jim,

You stated that the SPX trades 10 ft-lbs of torque @ 4500 rpm for 10 peak hp, with the SP1.

If you were to switch intakes on your last 2 engines, would track timeslips be any different? (w/o using water in the SPX)

Also, does your "competition" porting on TA SE heads that you refer to in obtaining over 600 hp involve any inlet/outlet work on the ports, or is it all inside?

Thanks for sharing all the info!

 

Matt did you follow this thread about porting 350 heads?

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=120529&highlight=rick+ported+350+head+cfm

 

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but having a engine builder like Jim provide these kind of combinations and Dyno results for the 350 would show many people that the 350 is a very credible street engine.

I have already started a dialogue with Jim about building my 350. I need to finalize the car first but am lucky and only live about 100 miles from Jim's shop. He knows a lot about the SBB also and could show many people thinking they need to put a BBB in their car that the SBB is really a good choice. Granted it will cost me just as much to have TSP build my 350 as a 455, but the car will be just as streetable with a 400hp SBB as a 400 hp BBB.

I might be dreaming, but the power numbers from the 74 Stg 1 BBB wouldn't intimidate me if I had a well built 350.

 

Working on a 350 project right now.. stay tuned..

And I would agree that if your goal is the 400 HP mark, the switch to a 455 is not absolutely required, although the small block will always be at a torque disadvantage, compared to the bigger engine, with a similar build. But the 350 certainly does have some durablity advantages as well as a weight advantage vs the big block. I think when we get a full compliment of aftermarket parts for the the 350, like we have for the 455, we will see quite a bit of advancement in the performance of the 350 Buick.. It's been slow in coming, but it will get there, especially considering the fact that the 455's are getting more scarce every day.

JW

 

I doubt it.. but of course would depend on the overall combo. There is not a lot of difference between the two manifolds in the 550-600 HP ranges. After 600 HP is where you will being to see a greater difference, simply due to the size and airflow capability of the SPX. For building 650+ Hp NA engines, the SPX would be my first choice, although I have done it with a fully port SP-1 in the past.

Unless your raising ports, or converting high port heads to a low port manifold, or vice versa.. then the heads as delivered from TA need only minor smoothing at the inlet and exits, they are gasket matched right out of the box. Unlike stock heads, or other aftermarket ones, the physical size of the entry/exit, by and large, is sufficient. Some extra work on enlargement of the exhaust on say a STAGE 1 TE head can help, but most guys going after this type of work chose the STG 2 TE head, due to it's superior exhaust port to begin with.

Most all of the work in a full competition head involves improving the "choke" points of the ports, as well as overall contour and enlargement of the ports, beyond the entry and exits. The bowls, the choke at the bolt boss, and the valve sizes are the very important in these types of heads.


The STG 1 SE heads in these sheets, even the 625 Hp ones were our upgraded bowl and chamber work heads. I have a full comp port street motor with SE STG 1 heads in the works, we will see what the performance improvement is. We are going to drop back on the cam duration, to make a more powerful, yet driveable package.

JW

 

Very cool stuff! I hope to get involved in your 350 project....

 

How much work (and $) does it take to upgrade from bowl/chamber work to a full comp port job on these heads?

Do you typically have to do a lot of work to the SPX on a 650+ NA engine?

Thanks again!

 

Bob,

That's kind of a difficult question to answer, because the competition port job will bring in a number of issues.. The most important is valve size. To really get those heads to flow, they need to have the big valves in them (2.260/1.810) so that would neccesitate removing the current seats, and buying and installing new ones. Then of course a new set of valves.

Your talking about $400-500 bucks right there. More if you go with 11/32 valves, and you have the 3/8 stems now. And that's a good idea, for mainly weight reasons, you won't see that much difference in head flow, but the lighter valves will require less spring pressure to stay in control of the valvetrain.

And then about $600-800 in port work, head bolt sleeving ect.. give or take, depending on the particular casting.

But in reality, if your thinking of doing this, I would sell your current SE heads and intake, and get TE heads.. they are much better to begin with.

Here's a thread with several pictures of a set of full comp port TE heads we did, a few years ago.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=121684&highlight=Stage+TE+heads

Fully set up, pieces like this go for right around $4500 a set.. Plus of course you have to use a SP-2 intake manifold.

Sounds like a lot, but if you add the numbers up, and can sell your current heads for say $2K, get a couple hundred for your current intake, and that will lessen the overall cost.

As far as just working on your current heads, I would say that with 400-600 in port work significant gains can be made with a set of TA SE's that have already had some work on them.. and of course we typically have to freshen up the valve job.. Figure your going to have $750 in them with your current valves, and you should be pretty safe.


ON the SPX.. depends on which carb-- the 4150 version just need some Plenum blending and a port match, about $250 worth..

The dominator version takes more plenum work, add $150..

JW

 

Digging up an old post. Interesting. I have these untouched BPG special heads. Jim, why do you think this is? Mine will need porting, will this set be a hinderance? Is there any CNC work that needs to be done to these at TA to bring them up to current OOTB standards?

 

Thank you for all your contributions in this thread guys! Great work Jim W!!

 

With your nice 1AX build I would have to assume that even with the rework of the Performer your down some 40 hp or more no?