Hi All, The alternator on my car is on it's last legs, I can hear the bearing grinding. So i'm going to take this as a good time to upgrade to a Internal regulator and up the amp rating. I was wondering how many amps I should go for and if I need to beef up the wiring? I understand how to do the conversion. My car is a conv and has AC and a P bench seat. I plan on adding P windows,P locks, a better stereo, and possible a electric fan. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Take care
Bruce, I just had a one wire internal reg. unit put on my car. Pushes around 85 Amp at an idle. Works great for powering the electric goodies!! Jerry
Jerry, Thanks for the info. That's what I'm concerned about, being able to run all the goodies. Take care
Hey Jerry where did you get your alternator from? What's it's max amp rating? I'm needing to upgrade mine, planning on adding power windows, no real huge drain there, but I'm also adding a sound system to my car that will include among other things a Sysnergy 12 inch sub from MA Audio, for those of you who don't know that sub pumps out 3000 MAX amps peak with RMS being 1500 amps. I'm also getting deep cell battery, and rewireing the car, but I need an alternator to keep up with it. And lets face it, the GM stock alternator for a 69 buick skylark just doesn't push out those kind of numbers. Thanks. PS: Is there anything real tricky to installing a internally regulated alternator? Thanks again.
Kazama, Its easy to convert. I picked one up from a salvage yard, matched it to my old one, and swapped my old pully onto it. I'm not sure of its rating, I think its 65 amps; plenty for me (no added accessories, just wanted a newer alt.). I've dug up a few links from when we addressed this before, hope it helps. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3328 http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6758 http://www.buicks.net/techref/ftecref14.html http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3888
Kazama, I had a local starter/alternator shop set one up. They take a late model alternator and put in an aftermarket kit. The kit comes with beefed up parts (I forget all the technical jargon). Any how it rates at 85 amps at around 1,100 rpm*. The shop says it will put out a max of 105 amps! There are no tricks to install this alternator. In fact it takes a leap of faith. Just hook up the main power wire on the back of the alternator then...are you ready...drive out the driveway and have a nice day. :laugh: All the alternator needs to start charging is a tap on the gas (see asterisk above *). I tossed the regulator on the firewall since you don't have to have it. You don't plug in that two wire plug either, on the back of a stock alternator. I've run this alternator on my GSX cloned racecar without any trouble. I don't think I would run anything less in the future. Jerry
It is quite trendy to try to get the biggest-amp alternator that you can. Fact is, you probably don't need more than about 25 amps. I think the factory alternator was 40 amps, which included plenty of safety factor. From the factory, the headlights and ignition coil were about all the alternator had to run, once the batteries regained their charge after a start (which usually happens fairly quickly). If you get a cooling fan, those only run intermittently, so even if your fan draws 15 more amps then it only does so once in a while. If you get electric fan, dual batteries, electric fuel pump, nitrous (to power the solenoids and bottle heater), big stereo, etc., then you might want to start looking at the bigger alternators. In the meantime, don't go paying big bucks for more amps (even then 65 is probably fine), it ain't worth it. There isn't really any downside to getting some huge-ass mega-amp alternator, except cost. The 1-wire conversion is nice, but I recommend upsizing the wire from the alternator- because the regulator is so close to the alternator, there is some voltage drop before the rest of the car gets power. With an external regulator, the voltage is measured closer to the car, so you will see a higher effective voltage. Upsizing the wire when you convert to 1-wire will help this situation. If you are going to get a subwoofer that requires 1500 Amps like Kazama, then you might consider contacting Ingersoll-Rand and renting one of those generators on a trailer. (BTW, you sure about that 1500 amps? I hope you mean 1500 watts or something, 1500 amps would be a 17,500 watt subwoofer!) And Jerry, if you have a 105 Amp alternator I REALLY hope you re-did the wiring! The factory wiring was not rated to take 105 amps, you could be looking at a potential fire there! -Bob Cunningham bobc@gnttype.org
......... ARG... yes i ment 1500RMS WATTS with a total output of 3000 WATTS,... so stupid. thanks for pointing that out.
I don't if I'm talking in the same lines the thread is , but I found out I can use a Grand National alternator rated a 120amps on my 82 Regal. No mods were needed... There is a converter harness adapter avalible that plugs into the factory alternator plug and then plugs in to the back on the GN alternator. I went to my local speed shop, they had to order it , around $17.00.... Now this is for MY Regal .... they ordered it for as such, basicly they wanted to know what car and eng, and what alternator was going in and talked to the company directly and it was ordered. So basiclly a plug and play. Just had to swap out pulleys. I did find this link simalar to my set up and the guy uses a GM harness kit ( wich is no longer avalible) but the numbers can be still used for cross reference when ordering. http://www.jonmega.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3 I know our factory plugs are different, ( an 83 versus a 71) but you might try that approach. Mine is from a company called Powermaster, part #140 a 10SI to CS-130 harness adapter. I beleive all our alt's are 10SI's I hope this helps:TU:
Upgrade? Ya' know, I have seen this for a while now... I would have to agree with Bob here... more than likely, for the majority of cars out there, the standard 63 A 10s alternator (for AC cars) is more than adaquate. Under not circustances, strickly considering the function of the alternator/ and the hard parts from a 10s (external regulator) to a 10si (internal regulator), would I consider it an "upgrade" to go to a 10si.. I personally have replaced/rebuilt hundreds of 10si alternators, and about 98% of those failures, were due to the INTERNAL REGULATOR!! GM went to this alternator, for one reason, and one only.. COST. The only advantage I can see when it comes to this matter, is parts availablility, as the older 10s is getting hard to find, but generally still is available. There will be a Hockey tournement in Hell before I ever make this switch.. My advice is to pick up a spare 63A 10s alternator, and enjoy the fact you don't have to deal with that pesky internal unit. The external regulator (especially the mechanical one) is fully serviceable, and was never a great failure point in these cars to begin with. Yes, I am sure there are some stories out there that may differ with this opinion, but they are the exception, not the norm. And there is a pretty decent electronic version of the external regulator on the market. If you get a new one these days, that is what you will be buying. Just take the cover off and look. Just one tech's opinion..:Smarty: JW
Thanks for all the good info. Since I haven't had a chance to do my alternator switch yet, I think I'll stay with my external regulator and upgrade to 65 amps or so. There's a real good rebuild shop near my Dad's place and he always has extras for sale(always keep a spare). Thanks again & take care:TU:
I never thought of it that way - its easier to replace a bad external regulator than pull the alternator off and open it up. That upgrade is what initially led me to the GSCA board and ultimately here, so in my case it was beneficial.
Mad Enterprises has a great F.A.Q. expaining one wire vs. three wire alternators at http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml
hi amp & i wire alts the alternator used up until 1972 is called a 10dn(dynamo) 1972 untill the mid to late 80s(depending on model)was called the 10si(system integrated)the later alternator with the small 4 prong plug is called a cs(charging system)130(millimeters in diameter)the dn & si were 63amps maximum from the factory.use these for stock applications,no wireing upgrade needed.the cs130 comes in 85-100-105 amp versions. if using any of these it is advisable to upgrade the power wire to the alternator.if you need more power,the dn & si units can be built up to about 80amps with a delta wound stator,so you can charge at an low rpm. if you go hi-amp without using the delta stator,you wont receive much amprage untill higher rpm.the cs130 alt is like a big block buick...IT LOVES MODIFICATION!you can build one up to 140amps with no low rpm problems,HOWEVER..you MUST upgrade the batt. feed wire!!!quite frankly,in the 20yrs+ in the rebuilding biz,i have never known the internal regulated(10si)to have the failure rate jim claims.the most common part failure is the diode trio,usually included in a "regulator,brush repair kit",so you assume the regulator is bad.on the other hand , there is a lot of crappy parts on the market,but the oem regulator is a stout puppy! i see maybe 5-10% failure,usually because of brushes wearing out,and the spring grounding the reg. thru the slip-rings.not from being in the unit.all these are very hardy units if built CORRECTLY(napa & the discount stores do not sell quality rebuilds for $45.00!!)you get what you pay for.i can build any of these units in a manner suited to your needs.if i can answer any questions,please let me know.:beer
On my `66 GS with a 430 transplant the previous owner had taken a 3 wire alternator and ran a jumper from one of the spades (were the double plug would have gone) to the ring terminal, and eliminated the voltage regulator on the firewall. Not being familiar with alternators I assumed it was a 'one' wire. When I ordered my new engine wire harness I had the one wire conversion incorporated. Now that I have been working on this car I have learned that I can not trust ANYTHING that the previous owner has done to the car. Let's just say it should be illegal for this guy to touch a car. It seems to work ok, I have only run the car for about 45 minutes and the front clip is off, so no idea on headlight issues. What, if anything should I do or be aware of with this configuration. Also, I can not find any indication of amperage, it is installed so I can only see about 80% of the alternator. The only thing that I see is a sticker with a bar code and some other numbers on it. Dave
Dave, I'm not sure you'll get a charge doing it that way. You need to hook #1 terminal to the idiot light wire (this energises the alternator), which has likely been eliminated from your new wiring harness. It is OK to jump the #2 wire to the stud at the back of the alternator. You should be able to get a one-wire conversion kit for your alternator from your local battery/electrical shop or a parts house to save the expense of a whole new alternator. As for the output, it really depends on the remanufacturer as to what it might have. some just grab one out of the pile, other put only new 65A stators in their alternators. HTH
dave,it will charge the way you have it hooked up BUT:if the regulator is stock,the #2 connection to the batt. stud will drain the battery while it sits(milliampes).this might not be noticable unless the car sits for an extended time,but will be the silent death of your battery and alternator.and problem #2 is you probably have to rev the piss out of it to turn it on,as adam is correct this should go to your idiot light.if ya REALLY want to run it as is you can hook this term. up to a resistance wire,and then to a 12v source key power ONLY!however i would go to my local rebuilder & pick up a 1 wire regulator(transpo part # d10se12v).if you cant find one under $20.00,let me know....:bglasses:
Quality Alternator Source Bruce, What did you end up doing? I'm in the same situation as you descibed, my Alt. is shot, and since I have the wiring harness (whole front end for that matter) removed I'm considering the one wire or 10si, if for no other reason than to clean up the firewall. Upgrading (capacity) is of interest to me as I have a convert with a/c, pw, ps, and will also be installing the new flexalite dual 13.5" elect fans (30amp relay) and a fairly substatial stereo. I'd like to find a quality alternator source for either configuration. Thanks Len
External Regulators???? I must be doing something Wrong!:grin: I put 4 external regulators (they all welded themselfs together) and a rebuilt alternator in the first 3 three years we had the GS, got stranded 3 times with a dead battery. When I went though the car I put a new engine wiring harness in, new reg. and alt. That first summer it was back together it welded two more regulators together, finally converted to a Internal Reg Alt and have not had a problem in 6 years. o No: I had converte my 65 GTO, I had the same problem with that car also.
