Thanks Derek, So sounds I'm gonna go with the spreadbore and with the money saved I'll by an wideband O2 sensor to get it tuned properly. Out of curiosity has anyone ran the street demon series? It's kinda a different carb, reminds of the thermoquads. That was one of the carbs I was looking at also. Thanks, Ryan
Coming up I'm gonna be doing some simple performance mods to make my car funner to drive without breaking the bank. Also Gary Farmer suggested that I document it and test performance before and after each mod, so I plan on doing exactly that. As of now my car has a stock 2 barrel 350, Accel coil, custom MSD wires, nice brass cap and rotor, unknown brand of points elim kit, new fuel pump, reused tranny cooler that I pulled of my K5, stock 2.56 gears, new fluids all around including trans flushed and new filter. Here's the mods planned as of now Install stock 4 barrel intake with dividers cut from front to rear but keeping the center (mod is listed on Doc's cheap tricks) Install a Holley spreadbore 800 carb that I plan on getting from another member on here Install a O2 gauge kit and properly tune the carb Install used headers I got from a fellow member (as well as a cheap simple exhaust with glasspacks) Install used Mallory box Recurve the distributor with a crane kit Install some good condition used gears and carrier (3.08s or 3.46ish) which I will be doing probably incorrectly and cheaply but we'll see how it goes Spectre 14x3 air filter with extra flow top that I will be borrowing from another project Carb spacer port to match intake with dividers cut Possibly buy and install a Jegs 60402 converter for $105 that's supposed to stall around 2000 So thats what I have planned but if you have anything you want me to try out that's cheap let me know. Also any tips on these that I may be overlooking will be great appreciated. I am limited on free time so mods such as head work are out of the question for now. Testing will be extremely "scientific" , it will consist of an app on my phone testing 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and mph. I will be doing three runs for each test, this way even if the 1/4 mile times aren't accurate, as long as they are consistent they will show improvement between mods. Some mods will be done at the same time (carb, intake and afr gauge most likely) and I really don't have time to test each mod with the 2 barrel just to test them again with the 4 barrel so naturally the intake and carb will be first. But I do think I am going to install the carb and test it before and after tuning for optimal afr to see the performance gains of proper tuning. If you have any suggestions let me know. Thanks, Ryan
One more thing I plan on doing is finding true tdc with a piston stop to see if it moved at all over the years (I have seen them move before) and that way I will have a more accurate timing mark to go off of.
An accurate TDC mark isn't really that critical, as long as its close its close enough to use for a point of reference when setting your timing. Timing lights can also be off too but as long as it is consistent they are good enough to get us where we need to get to. For example, when you do a run with the timing set with your light and where the mark is and its set to 34* and you get 15 seconds @ 93 MPH and then you ramp up the timing to 36* and that makes you pick up to 14.95 @ 94 MPH without pinging then @ 38* it goes back down to where it was and it starts to ping that tells you that the engine likes the 34* advanced. That is the best way to document what changes make the best bang for the buck is one at a time and check what that single mod did. It would be a good idea to do 3 runs with the 2bbl to average for an initial point of reference to see if your mods are making an improvement from what you started with. Fun stuff, make sure to write what you have done in a log book of some sort so you don't have to try and remember everything you did, trust me you'll be glad you have what you did in writing a year or 2 from when you started. GL Derek
Yeah I see what your saying about the timing. Makes more sense to do it performance based rather than numbers based, I just never thought of it that way. And I will be doing base runs I'm the stock 2 bbl configuration to start out. I have actually done some runs already when I first bought the car to see how it did and I can't remember the numbers (I have them somewhere) but I know it was a dog. Since I have done a tune up and adjusted timing I have noticed a considerable increase in power and feel so I need to set a new base line. And I will be documenting on here as well as I n a journal. I really like keeping track of everything done, I have one for my K5 that I started the day I got it and it has invaluable information should I ever forget what was done or pass it on. The reason I started one for that was because it was my dad's and after he passed away I took it as a project and trying to figure out what was done and why was a fricken nightmare since no one besides him knew. I have probably removed about 20ft of wiring rats nest from that damn thing with no clue why it was there or what it went to originally. Thanks, Ryan
Ok so I had my machinist cut the dividers out of the intake and just got my carb recently as well. So I've got to rebuild the carb and slap her on. Also I've got a 4 barrel throttle cable for it as well since I was told that will be needed. Here's some pics of the intake
Looks like they did a nice job, but why didn't you do that yourself and save a couple of bucks? Derek
Because it was $20, I was gonna do it it myself but I mentioned it to him when I saw him and and he was happy to do it. Considering how limited on time I am lately it sounded good to me. I did match the spacer to it though and smoothed out a few spots I didn't like.
Ah man, that's one less case of beer you can buy and do the job yourself! 20 bucks sounds very reasonable, I guess that was a good deal worth the trade off. Derek
Yeah it's been a tough week without any numbing solution, but I have a feeling that'll be remedied soon Yes, to me it was totally worth it, plus it allowed me to talk with him about the build I was planning. Turns out he has done Buicks in the past and knew all about the oiling mods so that was nice assurance.
Ok, so I have been very limited on time lately, so much so that my awesome wife took a week off of work to watch the baby during the day so I can work on the Skylark before I go to work. So unfortunately I didnt have time to do each mod and test performance separately. But I did get quite a bit done on the car and now I just have some tuning left. Here's a list of what I did Rebuilt and installed Holley 800 cfm spreadbore double pumper Installed set of used headers with glasspacks on both sides and no crossover and side dumps (sounds really good for being so cheap) Installed factory 4 barrel intake that I had the dividers cut out from front to rear 1 inch phenolic carb spacer I matched to the intake topped with a 1/4"- 3/8" thick open factory style gasket New NGK UR5 plugs BWD brass terminal cap and rotor New 4 barrel throttle cable New hardware from totally stainless (very good deal and quality) Crane cams adjustable timing kit (installed silver springs and set base @ 14*) - need to install limiter plate Installed AEM O2 gauge kit (super easy) Added an manual choke Installed a used set of 3.08 gears (actually really happy with the gear printing for not spending all day figuring out shims) So I didn't get everything done that I wanted to because I still need to I stall the used Mallory box I bought and have some more fine tuning on the carburetor as well as add a limiting plate for the vacuum advance. But, I am very happy with how much funner the car is! I still need to throw in a bigger primary pump squirter and some smaller jets as well but man the secondary hits good! And has no problem roasting my cheap tires... Err tire. I'll post some performance times of before and after but first I got to dial in the carb some more and I'm am at a standstill for now as it turns out the rear bowl was stripped but the member I bought it from is being very awesome and sending me another bowl. So after I get those finishing touches on my next plan is to try a small shot of N2O and maybe even more rear gear. But for now I can actually call it a muscle car and that makes me happy.
Ok so I am still tuning my carb but overall am much happier with the car. But as anyone on here could have predicted I want it faster! In light of recent t events though I am on more of a fixed budget than I thought so was just curious as to what some of you may think to be the best way to go fast...er for cheap...ish. I have decided that if I do rebuild the 350 it would be more milder than previously thought and not go with a stroker build. 1. I'm thinking more just ported iron heads, stock rocker type, Crower level 3 cam, hydraulic lifters, maybe cap/screw rods and possibly some auto-tecs if there's room since I would like to run a 100-150 shot. Or 2. Find a 455 and do a mild build on that which would be a pretty similar build I really want at least 400hp so if I'm gonna be struggling to make that with the 350 then I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't waste my time there. Let me know what you think? Also what all is involved with swapping, seams pretty simple but I might be overlooking something. Thanks, Ryan
Dude , Im sorry I forgot about the bowl, I took it off and then set it down to help my brother move a car and forgot where I put it , but i found it wed,...in the refrigerator I don't know why or how , but there is beer in there as well so maybe beer no 6 had started taking effect ha it will go out Monday On the engine, if your on a tight budget unless you find a mild 455 for cheap, just build the 350 I can't believe I'm saying this but with your mild goal it would be the better option per dollar
Lol carb parts in the fridge, my wife would freak out! No worries Hugger, if it was something I couldn't live without I would have been harassing you. I was able to get it to seal for the time being by removing the nylon washer and using Teflon tape that way it can at least reach a few good threads. Whenever you get around to it, if you need me to cover shipping let me know. You really think I should stick with the 350? I understand that parts are becoming more readily available but I'm still leaning towards the swap because I can make power easier. Like I said if I could do a mild build on a 350 and 400hp then I would be happy but if I'm gonna struggling unless I drop some real cash then I think it might be money better spent on the big block. I'm up to being persuaded, most of what I have come to know about Buicks I have learned from this great forum so I always open for some education. Thanks, Ryan
Hey Hugger since you have ran these spreadbores could you check out my post on the Holley carb section. I am having a heck of a time setting it up. Thanks
Here's a few pics of my car currently. I really like the grill painted satin black, to me it looks much better.
Update: I have installed a level 2 Quadrajet from quadrajetpower and more noticably I have put new shoes on the girl. Fronts are 255/60r15 on 15x8 and rears are 275/60r15 on 15x9. Tires are Cooper Cobras and the wheels are US Mag Indy Wheels. Ordered mounted and balanced from summit racing. I'm really happy with the look now. Next up will be springs, shocks, bushings and ball joints.
So apparently this car is well known locally and I was talking to a local mechanic the other day who recognized the car and said that the shop owner did all the work on the car for the previous owner for the past 30 years. Then he was telling me that supposedly about 5-6 years ago they did a quick and dirty rebuild on the engine (new bearings and rings). Kind of nice to know, would explain why compression is pretty even between cylinders. He said they just did a quick hone on the cylinder and cleaned the crank. So with this knowledge it is giving me more confidence of doing a cam swap. So here is the next stage of upgrades I have planned. 1. Suspension (springs, shocks, ball joints, bushings). Already have all this just need to install them 2. Disc brakes up front 3. 3.73 gears with a posi (gonna order from quick performance and set it up myself) 4. Cam swap (TA 112 or 212 and stage one springs, Johnson lifters and new chain) 5. Slightly higher stall converter (looking around 2200-2400 in a 10") 6. Nitrous express mainline kit (looking at the best and cheapest way to run the fuel system) Really hoping to have these done by the end of summer. At the very least to want to do the Disc brakes and the gears to have more fun. I'm also helping slap together a 65 mustang for a friend and it's looking like it will be faster so that's why I'm planning the upgrades.
With the cam you have and the ones you mentioned, the factory converter is good enough for now. Instead see if you can find a GN 200R4 trans to swap in and save your $ for a converter for that. Join the turbo v6 sites to look for the guys upgrading their trans because they're making to much power now. (usually that is when the car turns into a mostly race car) The gearing will give you better performance gains for now than a cam will. If you plan on getting a 200R4 then a 4.10:1 rear gear would be the hot ticket until you upgrade the engine and by then everything behind the engine will be ready for more power. This should be enough to take on any mildly massaged Junkstang. That's the best way to upgrade a car, start with brakes and suspension, upgrade rear gear, upgrade trans and lastly upgrade engine. Just make sure you have a plan and try to stay close to it. The converter is a bit of a grey zone this way but if you buy a good one you can have it re-stalled once for free, minus shipping. A cam isn't going to help as much as the gearing will, in fact for all the work of installing one of those cams IMO is hardly worth the $$ and effort. Maybe make a 15.0 second car go 14.9s in the QM! On the other hand, with the better gearing even with a "stock" converter if you can get traction you'll be around the low mid 14s. With the better gearing you will NOT want that 112 cam! That one peaks lower than a factory cam. You want to be able to keep making power up to 6,000 +, the 112 will be already done around 5,000 RPM.(with the factory rods, try to keep the revs below 6,300 RPM though)
Man I really appreciate all the advice Derek! I was already planning on swapping to a 200-4r eventually so that's sound advice there. Are there any particular ones I should look for or can any 200-4r do? I've read on here that even that stock torque converter in the GNs are pretty good? Ok well I'm pretty happy to here that about the cam swap, I really didn't want to lol. It's quite a bit of work while the engine is in the car and while I've done it before (albeit not on a Buick) I really wasn't looking forward to it so I'm happy to agree Hmm 4.10's? Ok sure, you convinced me, why not give her the full onion. Should be pretty darn good off the line for a stocker. I didn't even think about the new cam topping out sooner than the stock one. Well I'm feeling much better having already checked cam swap off the list I also like not dumping more money into a engine I plan on rebuilding (seems like it keeps getting pushed further and further on the back burner). But I do like the sound of 4.10s and overdrive.
