Then Dale, KO and a gent on here named Corey would be the only 3 I've ever heard of. I had 3 kids, a spare tire and tools in the trunk today and was starting out sideways on several occasions. So far so good. Anybody got a 3.42 posi carrier for sale? I don't need the ring and pinion, only the carrier (but I'll take the ring and pinion if I have to.
I broke my first 9-3/8" non-posi due to the accelerated wear the fun non-posi burnouts caused to the spiders & cross shaft. I have my concerns about the strength of even the posi setup once traction problems are solved. I think Buick themselves found a weak link early on since the left side carrier bearing grew a bit bigger after the 1966 model year, which is why the '66 carrier won't fit the '67 - '70 housings. I've only got 275 street radials out back with no troubles as of now...but with good tires I think it will be a toss-up between the complexity of the driveshaft and the ability of the carrier caps to keep the posi carrier inside the case where it belongs. Heavy cars, lots of power and good traction are usually a good recipe for finding the next weak link. I'm even considering an entire driveline update before I bolt on a set of slicks, especially with the level 3 heads going on from Gessler. As it is right now, the car can annihilate the tires from a 30 mph roll and spin all the way through second! Devon
It always was the spider gears on my buddies that went also. It has to be the abusive burn outs that tears them one wheel wonder rears apart. That, and holding the car in low until the tranny shifts into 2nd on it's own at 55 mph. Chirp! :Brow: Can't only eat just one.
My white 68 Riv has 210k trouble free miles on the rear. The 69 has 170k. And that one survived through my high school years. I cring at the stuiff I did in that car. Im surprsed its in one piece. Both are quiet as can be.
This is going to be a very interesting project, KO. We will all wait with baited breath to see: 1) How you do a single-piece driveshaft through the tunnel and 2) What it takes to relocate the brackets from your Riv rear to a 9" Ford This will be a fun project to help on! Ask us and we'll all gladly help where we can!
Yes Yard, it will be interesting... After looking under the car for a while last week, the driveshaft issue is indeed a tricky one, especially how the 2 piece unit bows downward and then seems to come back up to the pinion. You're solution to beef-up the back half seems to be a good one... that may be a better solution than going to a one piece shaft. The concern is breaking CV joints, but I'm not sure if that is common, and perhaps larger CVs could be incorporated into a bigger shaft. As for the 9", I am a big fan of those... I like the gear options, the diff options, the axle and brake options... it's going to take some geometry and a fixture to make the mounts, but it wouldn't be that hard.
Frank Steele in Maryland has a 9" in the rear of his '64 Riv. The '64's suspension set-up is slightly different in that the coil springs are mounted on the lower control arms compared to the '66 & up rears. Most everything else is the same. I don't know if I should even post this, but here goes. My '64 Riv. has over 300K. Not once, ever, has any part of the driveshaft given me any problems, or the rears. I replaced the center support bearing, but not the center support. I've kept the CV Joints & slip joint lubed since new, this is the secret. No one ever did it, that's why the problems. Of course I have the advantage of servicing my own car. I have swapped, '64 carriers are a drop out like a 9", between the 3.07 posi & the 3.90 posi since about '70 or so. Neither has ever been rebuilt other than making a shim to tighten up the clutch pack. My Riv. is about 4400pds. with me in it. It has pulled the left front on occasion, probably about 20 times in it's life. I even have my original axle bearings. Then again I don't get the thrill that others do by just burning up my tires. In my mechanics mind that's just abuse. Everyone to there own. If I break it then that means I gota fix it.With that all said something I'm sure will go south shortly. You can use the original Buick backing plates on the 9" by drilling only 2 holes & then keeping the 12" brakes. Or you can use the front aluminum drums & front brake shoes in the rear for even better brakes. Just some thoughts. As I think of them more can & will come if interested. Tom T.
Tommy, With your stock engine (except for the recent addition of the roller rockers - and even then, it only adds 20 to 30 HP) I wouldn't expect your driveshaft to give you problems. Where we run into problems is with a good bit of added HP with a shift kit. That 1 - 2 shift hits so hard that it twists that rear section that is only held in place with that vulcanized rubber vibration-absorbing ring. I'm on my 3rd and it has lasted for more than 3 years with that one-piece rear section. I'm getting another welded up now as a spare. Spares are cool... heh heh.
That gent I mentioned earlier, Corey, took a rear from a '76 Lincoln Mark and had his mounting brackets transferred to it, then bolted it in. I believe he said it was 1" wider than our stock rears. He did mention that getting the rear of the shaft to mate to the pinion took a bit of doing...
This is all good info... I like the idea of using the alum drums on the rear.. if I were building a race car, that would be a great trick. I agree with Yard that the driveshaft takes a beating. It seems that many trucks used a 2-piece unit, so maybe those parts could be used on a Riv for super-strength. I only had one driveshaft fail, and yes, it was because it was not lubed properly. The problem is that none of us (save for Tom) bought these cars new, so who the hell knows what happened for maintenance over the years. I think the hardest part about building a 9" would be the pinion flange... you'd either have to put a standard yoke on the shaft, or come up with a 9" pinion with the same spline count and size as the flange... good luck, there. The cool thing is that you can get a custom width bare housing with correct length axles and big Torino brake standoffs relatively cheap.
I could see where a harsh 1-2 shift would tear up the center support bearing mount, but I'd think it would tear up the tranny mount as well. As Tom said, good maintenence is of the essence, I as well have always kept mine well lubed. I remember when I first got my '66 from my dad many years ago.......it had a squeak that only occurred when driving below 5 or 10 mph, and you guessed it, it was dry cv's. I bought the special grease gun adapter and problem solved. When you compare these to single piece driveshafts, those are not exactly trouble free either. Even when you use heavy duty u-joints with grease fittings and grease them regularly, they still wear and get loose enough to cause vibration. As for the strength of these driveshafts, I'd be willing to bet that aside from that rubber center mount, a solid type '66 shaft would hold up better than you guys think it would. My bet is that you'd explode the tail of the transmission long before you'd break that driveshaft but what do I know. :idea2: Perhaps the fact this design steals a little HP by the time it gets to the rear wheels is a bigger issue. As for that center mount......the only reason they used rubber was to insulate driveline noise from being transmitted into the passenger compartment. Why not make a solid steel mount and beef up the way it's mounted in the frame tunnel for more rigidity? o No:
Another interesting point about strengthening the center mount. I'll have to poke around under there and see what's up. I have not torn one apart... can you put bigger u-joints (1350s?) in the stock CVs?
I doubt you can get too carried away with beefing up the stock CV's due to the provision for the ball bearing that separates the two joints... I'll post some schematics from my '67 manual to help out. Devon
The problem with these CV joints is that, unlike regular u-joints, these are spring loaded with a ball and spring. Will a "bigger" or "heavy duty" u-joint fit? Dayum! Have you seen the size of the u-joints Buick used in these things? hee hee They are pretty dang big. With all the abuse mine has taken, it took 3 years to need a center carrier bearing replaced, and I knew it needed it because it "jangled". When I had it replaced this last time the guy told me this is the last one that would go on this shaft because the shaft was worn. So it goes. But aside from that carrier bearing, I haven't needed any more work on it. And I pound on it like it is a buck-toothed, red headed stepchild.
http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/rivprop1.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/rivprop2.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~shinzan/rivprop3.jpg Devon
Awesome, Devon! Thanks! I recall that center support being a stamped piece of steel... reinforcing that may be the best place to start. I also see how you need to use the specific u-joints. Maybe a thorough rebuild, beefed up support, proper phasing, solid rear section, and good synthetic grease are all we need. o No:
I don't think you can do any better than that with the original parts as designed. I see the CV rebuild kits on ebay every now & then, I don't know if anyone sells the parts outright anymore. I'm running a rebuild that was done back in the late '80's with great results (so far). Devon
You can see in the diagram you posted that the Riv shaft bows downward and then back up as installed at ride height... to do a 1-piece, you'd need to modify the X tunnel in the front AND the back, re-pitch the rear axle, possibly monkey with the height of the back of the trans... and would a long 1-piece shaft be any better? An aluminum shaft would have to be at least 4" diameter to be strong enough, and that would be alot of tunnel mods.
I have no doubt that a minimally angled one-piece with killer u-joints would be the way to go. For me (I don't have the X-member to contend with) it means floor pan reshaping with possible implications of adding clearance to front & rear bench seat frames, and at leasta pinion angle adjustment, if not the tailshaft angle as you mentioned, as well. I think it will be the same plus frame work for the Riv. I don't think there's room for the larger diameter aluminum, but anything is possible. Also, I've had no experience with carbon fiber driveshafts, but the idea is intriguing. Devon
