67 Riviera 430 Build: Chapter 2

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by johnriv67, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Can I ask a silly stupid question......what springs step you using in your mechanical advance..........if very light it is possable your getting some mechanical while cranking..........it can be very hard to determine true base timing settings sometimes especially when we dont know at what speed the mechanical starts to come in.... so we often skip that and go right for a total setting as its normally much more important than the initial setting any ways.........until something like the starter brakes.

    The only way I have found to determine true base timing is the get the advance totally out of the picture........either use very stiff springs or cut metal strips to replace springs.

    With light springs you could be getting several degrees of mechanical advance dow low and think is actually base timing. Most distributors have about 20 degrees mechanical in then.......and it's not uncommon for them to actually gain s few more above 4000 rpm

    All this uncontrollable movement is another reason I have really began to favor locked out systems
     
  2. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    This is a good point, but cranking is at such a low speed, lower than 250 rpm, that I would see the increased timing at idle, since idle is around 750-800. For that reason I'd think that all timing is accounted for. I also did modify my distributor to only provide 14* mechanical, and verified it.
     
  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    A valid point, but there are ALOT of Buick distributors that have way more than 20*. 20* is actually pretty optimal. It wasn't unusual to see 30-34* of mechanical in the early distributors.

    http://v8buick.com/index.php?thread...specs-1965-66-66-67-68-69-70-71-72-74.329332/

    The 71-72 distributors had as little as 12*. If you use stock springs and idle the engine down as low as it can go without stalling, you can usually set base timing accurately.
     
  4. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

  5. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Totally bananas

    First, my apologizes to John and all for drifting this thread. (again)

    I was going to message this to Larry.
    Since I put bad info out here, I did not want it to go without correction.
    And, I wanted to express my appreciation to Larry's correction publicly.



    Hi Larry,

    I did not want to clutter John's thread anymore than I already have.

    After you posted, I figured I would mock up the starter and verify fit.

    You are correct, and I was wrong about the bolts.

    I saw your thread a while back, about the mini you used before getting Rob's starter, and I mis-read the part about the bolts, thought maybe the bolts that were currently being made now for OEM style starters were not longer correct, and that what you showed were correct.
    https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/starter-motor-bolts.349788/#post-2978792

    Than I also ran across Schurkey's post on starters and bolts and further got it into my head that i needed the bolts I ordered.
    http://v8buick.com/index.php?thread...ck-engines-knurl-warning.308737/#post-2565864


    After you replied yesterday, I went and checked the bolts, and the block and realized the knurled end at the threads needs to get purchase in the counter-bore in the beginning of the block, (similar to how a shoulder bolt functions).

    I thought the bolt only took up the tolerances in the starter housing. Once I realized that, I saw the bolts I had would not work (not long enough either). Went and bought the "Dorman" 45640 set of three. (long, medium, short OEM spec), put the starter on the block, checked the pinion spacing and lash and torqued it all down.

    So, once again, thanks for your knowledge and setting me straight. (I was going to wait and do the starter after I put the engine in, but glad I did not get to that point and find out all of that the hard way.)

    My assumptions let one of my brains, convince my other brains, it knew what it was thinking was correct.

    Now, back to John getting towards 11 territory.

    -Michael
     
    PGSS and johnriv67 like this.
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Glad you got it corrected Mike, Happy to help.
     
  7. Freakazoid

    Freakazoid Gold Level Contributor

    John. I know our engines are different. At the time with the GS113A installed straight up. Using Larry's distributor recommendations. Set it up, Mechanical all in at 2,000 RPM @ 34*. Then for the Vaccum advance installed the limit plate to 10*. Started great, hot or cold. Great throttle response. The distributor is a 71 points distributor, with a Crane XRI module , points eliminated.
    With my newer engine with the TA413 degreed cam, I'm running the same distributor, same set up, same timing, never a problem.
    As for the starter, Running a mini starter from TA. As per some member recommendations.
    Really a good part.
    I seen lots of broken starter nose cones over my time. Here the parts guys hate the dirt track guys. After bringing back about 5 broke starters, they give their money back and send them somwhere else.. keep on trucking.
     
  8. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    Starters usually last me 3 yrs with daily driving. Then look like yours.
     
  9. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    My buick chassis book from TA with color wiring diagram dosent have power windows either. It also dosent have blower motor relay just the resistor.
     
  10. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    Usually you need to move the window all the way up or down. Then un screw the track from the door. Unless your taljing about the main one that curves at the bottom. That one you loosen 2, 7/16 wrench bolts so you can move it out ward a little. Then enter track from the top. Its a pain. Usually have to support the window with screw driver.
     
  11. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    Ive disected my power windows many times. Its always fun when you put it all together and one of your windows flys down and is real slow going up. Then you realise the spring on the regulator is now in backwards.
     
  12. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Hey just checking in. Do you have any schematics that you could send me? The window mechanism appears to be the same over the years.
     
  13. 1969RIVI

    1969RIVI Well-Known Member

    Hey john I'm pretty sure our cars are "E" body or style cars so here's what I found in the'69 fisher body manual. Hopefully it helps? If what I posted isn't what you need and you can determine what "style" your doors are off the index page I'll look it up and send you the corresponding info.
     

    Attached Files:

    johnriv67 likes this.
  14. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Back home for spring break. One final push to get the car ready for my schools show in April and then the UConn show in CT before final exams.

    In this picture you’ll see part 1 of the problem. This bolt/thing has left the hole on this part of the swing arm. The hole is in the center of that arm and it connects to the window track at the front of the door to guide the window down.

    Part 2 is that the window motor spins freely and contacts no particular part of the gear, which leads me to believe the gear is missing teeth.

    Where can I find this small broken off piece?
    And where could I order a new gear?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Now what?

    image.jpg
     
  16. 71stagegs

    71stagegs bpg member #1417

    John take a picture of the regulator that's what the motor bolts up to
     
  17. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    The teeth look pretty worn
     
  18. gs66

    gs66 Silver Level contributor

    I think I have a 67 Riviera AM/FM radio. Yours for shipping or can bring to BG if you want it.
     
  19. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    In other news, I’ve driven it about 50 miles over the past two days, maybe more.

    Almost sorted out the downshift.
    The upshift: 1-2 happens at 5200 and 2-3 happens at 5200. That sounds like room to grow. Probably bring it to 5500 for both, but I know this cam would love to go to 6000.

    I will be on the phone tomorrow with a shop about the power window, I may have to wave the white flag on this one. The only thing done by a shop on this car that wasn’t to fix parts...
     
  20. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    Is the transmission stripped out in motor? Grab it with pliers and give it power.. it might just make you a man.
     
    johnriv67 likes this.

Share This Page