Jus' thought I'd toss in a few ideas about the torque ball thing. If it was me here's what I would do........ Drill a small hole (1/4") at the lowest point of the torque tube (bottom) closest to the rear axle. Fill the transmission and rear axle fluid to the proper level and drive the car a bit. Let the car the sit overnight and see if oil is leaking out of the hole you made. If it is, either the pinion seal or the torque tube seal at the front is leaking. If no fluid leaks out of the hole you made those seals are good and it's only the torque ball leaking. Check to make sure all 6 bolts on the torque ball are tight. Mine were loose. The pinion and torque tube seals on mine were original and didn't leak at all. While I can't vouch for other years, on my '60 with the springs and shocks bolted in place, there is plenty of travel in the torque ball and seals to let the rear axle hang. The next time I have a chance to look under the car I'll see if there's enough room to pull the torque ball with the trans in place and moving the axle enough rearward to R and R just the torque ball. Steve weim55 Colorado
Bob, Looking at your pics again I noticed the floor mats in the rear. Those are actually the originals to the car? Sewed together with the carpet in the center? Steve weim55 Colorado
Steve, I am pretty sure that fluid is getting into that tube, as the joint in between the two pieces of the tube is dark and caked with some gook as well. As far as all that goes we'll wait for warm weather to return. For now I'll just watch my levels and drive her sparingly. Yes, that rubber is the floor covering. Look at the sill, you can see that it is also rubber. I really wish that was available. Some ideas for a close facsimile are percolating. Right now the upper dash is off and cluster is out for cleaning, painting, and replacement of the grey edge rubber that slips on the lip between the dash and the unit. I'll post pics when it's done.
Clutch Linkage This was one of the things that showed signs of sitting for 35 years. When I got the car the clutch linkage was almost completely seized up. Completely dry and surface rusted from sitting so long. I got lucky and most of the setup was still in serviceable condition. The firewall pivot that I talked about in master cylinder post needed work from excessive wear in the main pivot pin. A machinist I use for the shop helped me out with this. For sixty bucks he bored the main hole one size larger and machined a new pivot pin to match. Now the pivot moves straight and true with no slop. Plenty of clearance with the new dual master cylinder. Next came the cross shaft. This goes between the frame and a mount that bolts to the bellhousing. A pivot ball supports this shaft on each side. The frame side has a great greaseable metal mate to the pivot ball. Just clean, regrease and go. The bellhousing side used a rubber bushing that slides over a shaft on this mount. The rubber bushing fell on the bench in a hundred pieces when I took it apart. Using a couple of poly sway bar bushings, I drilled the center to match the shaft. Using my bench grinder I ground the outside diameter to fit inside the cross shaft. Fits well. The rest of the rods and pins just needed to be cleaned and greased. Same for the clutch pedal swing. The only other mod was to find a new place to anchor the return spring. The new master cylinder gets in the way of the spring using the old return anchor on the steering column. I spun a drilled wing nut on one of the fender apron bolts and attached the spring. Quick and easy. I the pics you'll see a massive spring that attaches to the cross shaft at the frame and acts as an overcenter spring to help reduce the foot pressure required to release that heavy three finger clutch. With everything assembled and adjusted the clutch pedal works smoothly. Amazingly light pressure for a three finger pressure plate. Steve weim55 Colorado
Buick was the first to put red dye in the transmission fluid; to be sure that, was where the oil was leaking from.
Steve = my hero. Being that the 3-speed '60 Buick is so rare, it's a true find when someone is willing to go through the detail that he has in posting the various teardown, repair, and rebuild processes. Steve, I will try to reciprocate. So far the things I have done are pretty simple in comparison.
Well, I took "Sandy" out for a bit of a drive tonight, running a few errands, no more than a few miles from home. The car drives really pretty well. Clearly the shocks are tired. The steering is great - feels tight and responsive (as 4500 lb. behemoths go). The manual steering is really not a big deal- you just have to get the car moving the slightest bit and use your hands on that wheel wisely and you're OK. I often forget that the brakes are not power - they are very good. Imagine how much better they will be when they are completely replaced. But what I really wanted to know was- how much is this torque ball leaking? Well, when I returned home from my drive and parked in the driveway, I sat in the car for a few minutes before I got out. The 4-5 minutes I sat there were enough to leave a small pool about 2 inches in diameter, about 1/8 in deep. That's enough to tell me that we have more than a minor drip. I will definitely be using the info here to assist me in doing the work.
Shifter Rods Nothing too tricky here. First order was to repair the worn area you see in the pics. Two of the "shafts" were worn pretty badly. Created alot of slop in the arm hole. I carefully welded up the shafts then hand filed them back to original diameter for a nice fit. (sorry, the after pics didn't turn out for some reason...) Next I simply installed them exactly as they came off, no adjustment or anything. A quick check of the shifter showed a good operation, no further adjustment needed. Reinstalled the "toggle spring" (that goofy spring you see hooked up to the main arm on the trans...) and that was it. A couple of other notes about this........ The column shifter itself is still a little tight and hard to shift. The steering column still needs to be disassembled and properly lubed which I intend to do when the interior work begins in the spring. Instead of using cotter pins to attach the shifter rods to the arms I like to use the spring type clips that are used on Hurst shifters. They're inexpensive and hold the rods tight in the arm minimising slop at the shifter a little more. Plus they're easy to remove and reuseable. Sometimes it's possible to use the bushings that come with the clips in the kit too. They didn't fit on the '60 rods though. If you look at the side of the trans you can see the unusual arrangement of the shifter arms. The small arm controls the "slide", (reverse and 1st, or 2nd and 3rd) , the large arm is used for the operation of all gears. The small arm uses no seal in the case and the large arm does. I purchased a new seal for the shaft of the large arm but it turned out to be the wrong size. In reused the old one for now 'til I can get my hands on a correct replacement. Thanks for the kind words. While I do have some years of experience working on old cars I wouldn't really call myself a "craftsman" (there are definatly some real deal craftsman here on these boards....) I'm more like a "crafty man" whos become pretty good at making things work when the wallet or the parts supply is dry. The main reason I posted this thread is I thought the information might be useful to someone as I went along. Save another some time or grief. And to meet and learn from some of you all who have done the same. Worked out good for me too. Thanks, Steve weim55 Colorado
Steve, as I look at the cross-sectional view in the shop manual over and over again, I absorb a little bit each time about the operation of the torque ball setup. It seems to me that there are only four points where the torque ball can leak: The inner retainer O-ring The outer retainer O-ring The torque ball seal, which is sandwiched between the two The universal joint's output yoke and its associated bushing Further, it would seem to me that if gear oil is getting into the torque tube, the only one of these four from whence that leak could originate is the universal and its associated bushing; all of the other sealing points would leak only to the ground. The joint between the two sections of the torue tube seems damp with fresh oil, so I have every reason to believe that the tube is indeed taking on oil. Does that seem like a sound hypothesis? Forgive me for belaboring this. Some may ask, "Why does this guy just not rip it apart and see what's up?" Well, I will have a very limited time to have it apart once it's underway; I have no garage, a wife who frowns on cars with no rearend sitting in the drive, and a very busy schedule. So a full understanding of what's afoot along with an understanding of what parts I will need is critical to me. Steve, were you able to determine whether the torque ball and universal are available if they need to be replaced? Or are they unobtainium? Thanks for reading! Bob
All the parts you need are available from Bob's Automobilia & others. If you look at the end of the torque tube that enters the u-joint you will see a seal buried in there. This seal STOPS the fluid from entering the diff. Pay attention to how this seal is removed. Many install it backwards. Your trying to keep fluid OUT/FROM ENTERING the rear diff.
Yes, I must have worded that poorly. I know that oil in the tube is a bad thing. Thanks for the tip on the parts.
Well, Your rebuild reminds me of the work, my Dad and I did to our Roadmaster on it's restoration in 1972-1975. Dad did'nt have a lot of money to spend on the car. But, there weren't many parts available to spend money on anyway. We just came up with ways to refurbish what we had. And, to make do with what used parts we could find, from salvage yards (the old fashioned way, pre-internet). "Crafty man" is a good description. Keep up the good work:TU:
Bob, To determine the EXACT culprit of your leak could be tricky. You are correct with the makeup and order of the seals in the front torque ball area. It seems if the torque ball seal itself is the leak it could easily "trick" you into thinking the oil is getting out through the universal bushing, dripping out the parting line between the torque ball and the torque tube. They are only inches apart. Is the oil just dripping down the torque ball and onto that parting line while you are driving? The front tube seal is just after that parting line to the rear direction of the car. If oil were to get past the universal bushing it could leak out at the parting line. Here's a suggestion, Drive the car a bit to warm up the tranny fluid. Then put her up on jackstands, level, where you can under it. Clean the torque ball area throughly then run the car on jackstands in third gear on the first step of the fast idle cam. Watch closely to see EXACTLY where that fluid is getting out. I'd bet $$ it's the torque ball only. If the fluid IS coming out of the parting line, the universal bushing or the output yoke are worn, or both. As far as universal joint availibility, Kanter rebuilds them but that doesn't help you if the yoke is shot. The yoke that rides in that bushing is the same as a Dynaflow so that would be an easy find. To keep it cheap I have a good feeling if you obtained the U joint assy. and torque ball from a Dynaflow chances are they would be in good condition. Then you could send the two assemblies to the rebuilder and have them mate the stick front yoke to the Dynaflow rear yoke. Or just mod the Dynaflow joint the same way I did. Like Teleriv said, there are plenty of sources for torque ball assemblies new. Just one more thought......... if you can determine your needs from above you could have all your parts ready to go and take the car to a shop with a lift and a tranny jack. A super easy job for a shop. 3 or 4 hours tops to replace the all the front seals and the universal if needed. They could easily modify a Dynaflow joint the same way I did if needed. (send it to me, I'll do it for you if you want...) Check with Gesslers or Chilenskis. Both of 'em are in New Jersey. Great knowledgeable Buick guys. If they can't do it I'm sure they could refer you to someone competent. Save alot of aggrevation. Worth the $$. Steve weim55 Colorado
Well, I am beginning to feel more confident about this work. I have spent essentially all of my free time the last few days reading about it and studying the FSM, and looking under the car. I'm really very confident about my ability to get the driveline out myself. The torque ball as well. I am a little shaky on getting the trans out if needed but that's more trepidation than lack of skill. You made it look like it's easily done. When I said that I saw fresh dampness at the joint, I meant the rear joint near the rear universal and carrier bearing. I think that fluid may be making its way all the way down the tube and oozing out from there. The fresh addition of fluid to the trans and the driving went hand in hand with what I perceive to be fresh ooze from that location. I do not think that the pinion seal is leaking as well (I sure hope not). I will be ordering a full torque ball seal kit and front seal for the tube. These I am sure I will replace. Then, when it is time to take it all apart, I will disassemble it and observe. If I need a universal, you made a great point about using the front yoke from the stick unit and the rear yoke from a Dynaflow unit, and having them mated during a rebuild of the joint. Also, cutting down the input yoke is not something that worries me. That kind of improvisation is right up my alley as long as I understand things. Also, if the yoke were grooved or slightly worn, could it be turned down on a lathe and fitted with an undersize bushing in the torque ball?
More Brakes.... With the master cylinder and front brakes done it's on to the rear brakes, brake hydraulics and the parking brake. Simple stuff on the rear brakes. They looked as though a complete job had been done on them (all from the Invicta parts car) with almost no mileage since. Brake hardware, shoes and drums are all fantastic. Just clean, lube and go. Wheel cylinders are the most perfect originals I've ever seen. If there was even the slightest pitting or rust inside I would have replaced 'em. Disassembled they are like new. Rubbers perfect. Maybe these are some NOS units? Just cleaned and reused. Assembled everything and adjusted per the factory service manual. Run the adjusters out 'til the drum can just be turned by hand then back off 15 "clicks". '60 Buicks were still using manual adjusters for all 4 drum brakes. Steve weim55 Colorado
Brake Hydraulics With the front brake hydraulic lines and master cylinder already done all that's left is the rear line from the master to the rear wheel cylinders. The hard lines were all in good condition. I just cleaned 'em up, blew them out with compressed air, sprayed brake cleaner through 'em a couple of times and blew them out again. A rubber flexible line from the axle tube to the frame was found new in the box in the trunk of the Invicta. (lucky me!) With everything installed again next was to bleed the system. I bled the master cylinder first then went on to the usual method I use for a dry system. Opening one wheel cylinder at a time I let the system gravity bleed 'til i have fluid at each wheel cylinder bleeder. This can take awhile sometimes. Not uncommon for it to take an hour or so for each wheel cylinder to get fluid to it using this slow method. For some reason this method flat would not work on the LeSabre. I checked everything I could. Master cylinder piston travel, Fluid through the outlet ports on the master, all lines tight, no restictions. I even let the car sit with the wheel bleeders open for DAYS. Still no fluid at the wheel cylinders. I've used this method for decades with no fail on dozens of vehicles. Why no go on this '60?? I decided to purchase a vacuum tester - bleeder to get the job done. Here's my plug for a great product that I can't believe I've done without the past 30 years......... I purchased this Mityvac MV 8500 kit off Mac Tools truck for just $70.00. It's a fantastic, very high quality complete kit. All metal vacuum gun with gauge. Many adapters and lines to fit almost any application. Clear line and cup so you can "see" the fluid as it starts to flow from the system while you bleed it. With my new shiney tool in hand I gave this another try....... To use the vacuum bleeder is simple. With the hose attached from the gun to the bleeder valve at the wheel cylinder, you pump the gun 10 times or so to build vacuum. Then you open the bleeder and vacuum sucks fluid through the line with a "whoosh" . On my dry system it took a few cycles of this to get fluid at each wheel. How wonderful this worked! I did the whole system two times and "wala"........ We have brakes! And how nice to see clean fluid coming out of lines as I did this. The only pain in the butt thing here is the bleeder valve for the front brakes is right behind the spindle. Impossible to get a flexible hose on the bleeder to do this procedure. I had to remove both of the wheel cylinder bolts and push the cylinder as far into the backing plate as I could to get a hose on the bleeder valve to bleed each front wheel. Very frustrating........... Steve weim55 Colorado
Parking Brake. On both cars the parking brake was completly seized up. The pedal wouldn't budge an inch when I tried to push it down. I decided to try to repair and use the Invicta system as I figured most people wouldn't use the e brake on a Dynaflow car thus less wear on the system components. It's a fairly typical system that uses two cables. One from the pedal inside the car to the front of the driveshaft tube. A second one that forms a "U" shape from each rear brake to the front of the driveshaft tube to mate with the other cable. Opon disassembly I found both cables seized up in their housings and the idler wheel for the front cable seized up on it's shaft. To free up the cables, I carefully used a slide hammer attached to one side of the cable, then lightly hammered the cable until it began to move in the housing. As I inched along scores of fine dirt and dust poured out of the housing. Next I screwed my cordless drill to the end of the cable and spun it in the housing moving in and out as I went. Dirt and more dirt...... blowing out the housing with compressed air every few times. With everything clean the cables looked almost unused. Zero wear. A little grease on the cables and they work like new. Same deal for the cable idler. Carefully pound out the shaft, clean and grease. The pedal assembly looked like new and only took a little grease to operate smoothly. Whip it all back together and adjust. Hot diggity...... we now have four working pedals under that dash! Steve weim55 Colorado
