I am going to build a 494 stroker shortly and wondering what cam to use. The car run 10.30's-10.40's 60 to 70 degree temps, fair air,with a 464 with STG 2 S.E. ta heads. TA508 solid cam ,Kb intake, 1050 Dom ,!.60 rollers ,12.5 to com., 4.10 rear, 29.5 X 11.5 hooiser Q.T., conv flashed to 4200., 4" X pipe exhaust and mufflers,.car weight was 3500lbs. . My plan is same heads, intake,carb with rejet etc. about the same comp 12.5. maybe 31" tall tires and get the convertor tighten and weight around 3300 Lbs. My choice in cams would be stick with the 508 solid. Your thoughts on a cam if you run a 494 would be helpfull. thanks Bill "SPORTWAGON FROM HELL" DEAD but starting to twitch a little!!!!!
Why ruin a good thing? I'd re-run the 508. Assuming that the cam and lifters you have are still good. Since you are making some other changes why not leave the cam since you know how it works with the old combo. Too many changes and you won't know where your at for a while. Trust me on that one (two years and two engines later). That's my .002 cents. Are you running a transbrake? Just curious.
Bill, I do have a 494 (308S cam), but instead of talking cams, offer some food for thought. I know that it has been mentioned that the extra cubes broaden the torque band more than offering gobs more horsepower. Maybe consider going to track eliminator heads instead? I think but don't know that the bang for the buck might be better, and E.T. mabe too?
Jerry and Adam Thanks for the info. Jerry,I didn't mention that the cam or lifter bores on number three cyl cut lose at 6000 rpm and I only have part of the cam. I lost every thing except the heads ,intake ,headers, the TA front cover is trashed, a part of the cam was tossed thru the front of the block, the TA oil pan has atleast 15 holes. The crank, rods and piston are still together, but are scored badly. Adam, As you can see, the heads are one of the parts that don't need replacing except bent valves. I had thought about selling the wagon as a roller but it was our tow car to the GS NATS from 86 to 95, and its how people know me, just a 61 year old guy still being a kid at heart. Thanks Bill
Bill, you've got good heads, but you might go faster with less money if you went with stock-ish stroke and upgraded to track-eliminators? Sell the SE's and get some of the investment back. I'm thinking ~$2800 for a good set of TE's; ~$700 for the SE's as is (depending on what porting has been done); so about $2100 for the new setup. How much for a 494 build these days? Some guys more in the know than me(JW, JB, AM&P whatever other gurus you know), to find out what kind of power levels you can expect from each combo. I do remember several guys discussing that the stroker doesn't offer that much bang for the buck though. Maybe I'm all wet here, but thought it might be worth bringing up before hindsight sets in.
Bill, Glad to hear that you are wanting to start working on your car again. It has to be disheartening when you have an engine failure as bad as yours was. Also glad to hear your not selling the hotrod!!! Anyhow... the cam. When your determining what cam to run you must factor in things like.... Stroke..... rod length... compression and cylinder head flow. First you choose your intake lobe. When doing this you have to decide how close to detonation you want to put this engine. The closer to detonation the more power... but we all know detonation KILLS an engine. Putting in a camshaft that is too small puts the engine closer to detonation because it creates more cylinder pressure. So... I believe your better off going a bit larger on the camshaft to reduce the chance of killing the engine. On a typical 464 Buick with a 3.90 stroke, 6.6125 to 6.800 rod and a compression ratio of 12:1 to 13:1, you want to have an intake duration anywhere from 260 to 272. The more compression the more duration you will need to decrease the chance of hurting your engine. Once you have your intake lobe decided on then you choose an exhaust lobe. This is done by determining how much exhaust flow you have compared to the intake. If your exhaust is 80% of the intake without the use of an extension pipe then you want to run an even intake and exhaust duration if your running open headers. If your running mufflers then at 2 to 4 degrees of duration to the exhaust lobe. Now...your 494. Lets say 4.150 stroke, 12.5:1 compression with a 78% exhaust flow and a 6.800 rod. This would require using a camshaft that has an intake duration of 265 to 272 and an exhaust duration that is 2 to 3 degrees larger. This is assuming your running this thing on a 110 lobe seperation. Also remember... when installing the cam make sure you degree in the camshaft!!!!!!! Advancing the cam will make the engine create MORE cylinder pressure which will bring it closer to detonation!!! I am of the opinion if you have to advance a camshaft more than 2 degrees then you should get another camshaft. Hope this helps
Adam, The question you bring up... Is the CUBIC INCH worth the extra cost? That is a great question! I have heard two totally different answers to that question and I wish I was extremely wealthy to build two different engines for a comparison. The only info that I could offer on this subject is my experience. Going from a 464 to the 523 my et dropped about .3 to .4 and a gain of 6 to 7 MPH. At the time the 523 Stg 4 cylinder head outflowed the 464 Stg 2 head by 7 cfm up in the higher numbers. But..... the volume of air in the Stg 4 cylinder head port was 10 cc larger than the Stg 2. Also.. the intake manifold runner was larger on the Stg 4. In addition to the runner volume the compression was 14.7:1 on the Stg 4 vs. 12.8:1 on the Stg 2. So... what would have happened if I had the better flowing Stg 4s with the larger runner volumes and additional compression on the 464 short block?? I can tell you the crankshaft on the 464 is 8 lbs lighter. I don't know... What do you guys out there think? Is there NO substitute for CID? Ideally maybe a destroke crank to 3.750 with a 4.500 bore?? And a custom built crankshaft that weighs 45 lbs vs our present crankshafts that go 70 to 90 lbs??? Damn I wish I was wealthy!!
John, I wish you were too! It'd be interesting to do a head-swap between those 2 engines to see the difference. I think the 494 or 523 would ultimately make more power, but that the $/HP ratio probably climbs tremendously when getting the additional cubes. The new block would definitely add a new twist to all of this cost-wise with the bigger bore. I'd probably stick with the 3.9 stroke just for the "free" cubes. I'd go long stroke with a billet for the same reason. If you're gonna pay for it anyway, the more cubes the better. (IMHO) Bill, sorry if I've hijacked your thread...
Guys , Keep it up, this is very interesting. Boy, do I feel stupid!! You guys are making me think and my brain hurts. John I may give you a call , I have your number from my last time I posted a question with regard to an engine. My son said I should stick with the same combo I had . The new engine may put the wagon in the very high 9's which presents the problem of new requirements for the car and me. It was so much fun and easer to run 11's!!!!! Its midmight and I need to sleep on this! Thanks so far for everyone's input Bill
