Afternoon everyone. So after getting the car finally running & on the road I noticed a oil leak coming from the front pan(just in front of the frame mounting area). As of today, it started a knocking noise I could feel in the pan. I could feel it right where the hole is & could see oil coming out. I just had the motor rebuilt & used the ARP bolts from TA. I will have to replace the pan anyway so do you guys have any suggestions about how to avoid this in the future? TA tells me they also sell a bit of a thicker gasket to help with this issue. I've read that this is somewhat common & there's not much clearance between the pan & the bolts. Looking to avoid this issue with the next pan. Thanks, Kyle
There isn't much clearance at the front of the motor. Any small dent and the crank will hit. So the contact made a hole in the pan?
That's what it looks like to me. Very small pinhole type. Like a little “pimple” bump. Not sure if there was any issue at that area of the pan before took it in to be rebuilt. Kyle
I have that plan in motion. Maybe get the 3/16” gasket from TA instead of 1/8”. That should be enough right? Not to mention I can put the windage tray in as well. What’s your opinion on the windage tray Larry? Kyle
Sounds good. Will a stock windage tray be fine? I'm around 410HP. 1/4"-20 bolts correct? Should I Loctite the bolts? Kyle
Stuffed the 430 in my '68, and did the break-in 30 minutes 2000-3000 RPM, then shut it down. Proceeded to do post-break-in tasks, and decided to add Wilwood discs upfront since the car was manual drum brakes and I figured the "go fast" mods were gonna need some "whoa Nelly" mods. In that process, I realized after I drilled one spindle pin bolt hole for the Wilwood caliper bracket, I was unable to get the tap to bite since the old high nickel content spindles were a bit hard. So I popped the spindles off and noticed the ball joints were "gritchy", so I ordered new Hotchkiss ball joints and time moved on. After getting all that done, and trying to bleed the brakes, I found the new master cylinder (my cousin gave me when I started this project) had sat in his garage since the fall of 2012, and the seals were shot. Rather than spending money on a rebuild kit and flipping a coin as to the rebuild being 50/50, I spent a few dollars on a new MC. Swapped, bled, done. Now I could put the rear off the ground, fire it up and run the transmission and rear (both new/dry rebuilds) and get things "honeymooned". Well, fired the beastie up and hear a knocking. Um, crap... I found the noise was coming from the front. Put stethoscope all over the block, heads, head bolts, and even on the crank bolt, cannot hear the knock through the 'scope, so I am (hoping) thinking maybe it's something hitting the pan. (Please, be hitting the pan...) Since the know was similar to how my Harley sounds at idle, (not a steady beat, but syncopated), I am having hope it is not a rod bearing too loose oil clearance. I put the scope on the pan and could hear it in the front bottom of the pan, and put my thumb on the front center of the pan and "feel" it. I tried pressing on the front of the pan to see if I could get the knock to increase in volume, but it was too hot to press with my thump, and I tried with a rubber-coated hammer handle, but it would slide off. To be sure, I figured I would pull #1 and #2 plug wires, one at a time and see what I got. #1, wire off, no change, still the little man with a big hammer in my engine's basement... #2 off, knock goes away, wire on, knock comes back. Now I am sweating. Go to push the wire back on, and my bare knee touches the bumper and I channel some HEI through the hand and knee. Jump tossed my needle nose plyers in the air, they flip three times and land on the air filter. I hate it when that happens! So, I shut it down, am worried that I have a #2 rod bearing problem, and a figure I still need to run in the ring and pinion on a few 20-minute trips around town with hour cooldowns, and the knock only seems to happen at idle. Today, I took it out for another "rear gear heat and quench". When I started, there was that knock, so I got under the front (wheels chocked, brake set, in the park) and got to thinking, if it is #2, then it might be hitting the driver's side of the pan on the bottom of the power stroke, not the front of the pan. Put my thumb on it and pressed and Whoo Hoo! noise increased. The noise just did not sound like a rod, very close, but not quite exact, and the front oil seal around the lip of the pan is lightly wet, nowhere else on the engine or transmission is there any leaks, so I suspected it was rotating assembly hitting pan. I figure if it wears a hole, then I can "tug" the pan a bit and get clearance, then weld a patch, but it is so light a contact, it may not be a problem. I cut the filter and checked the drain plug after the break-in, no metal at all, only small gray sludge from assembly lube, rings rubbing cylinders, and the normal dust and debris from the break-in. A few more stop and go trips to harden the gears, and then off to get the exhaust welded up, then nice and easy for another few hundred miles. It is a TA oil pan, and ARP studs on rods and mains. I did not clay the pan, but in retrospect, I should have (I clayed almost everything else I could think of), and hope other folks can avoid this. Video link http://www.wootmonkey.com/upload/2020/06/05/20200605212808-36c89154.mp4
Sand that area clean of paint and use a stud welder to attach a pin to the loud spot and pull it with the slide hammer ever so lightly. Break off the pin grind . sand and repaint. Looks like theres plenty of room to work. Vid should give an an idea.
Damn, those rods/bolts run that close that just finger pressure on the steel causes the noise to increase?
The stock steel pan, as well as the TA replacement pans do vary and clearance should always be checked when assembling. You can manipulate them very easily to gain clearance with a rubber hammer, radius plastic mallet or even a large ballpeen hammer. To avoid "hard" dents with a ballpeen you can use a piece of carpet or heavy fabric to "spread the load". Buick stuff is very seldom "install and forget", even from vendors (like me). These 50 year old castings and components are not all "equal", when compared to todays standards.
I learned my lesson. I almost always fit check things a couple of times, because of the wide variation as you say, of time, and manufacturing processes, repop parts being made from "used" samples, and all the rest of the gotchas. I just did not realize the pan is that close. But it came with an "indicator"... I will go with Steve's (Briz) method since I cannot be sure where to have Tanya Harding do her thing and do not want to make it worse or compromise sealing. In this case, the contact is so light that it comes and goes with temp, and I think I can pull it with a welded pin while it's running. @mark. You do not know how relieved I am that it was not a bearing. Well, OK, you know.
