430 out of the frying pan into the fire

Ken,if nothing also turns up,I would check for a cracked flywheel,they do make noise like rod knock.Bruno.

 

Or loose flywheel bolts, which is what happened to me recently. Had forgotten to Loctite them when last installed. Sounded a lot like a rod knock, very unsettling and a big relief when I found out what it really was.ray:

 

Its so loud and solid a sound that I am doubtful

however, it could also account for the poor running of the engine if I am not getting enough fuel

I will check it out. thanks

I thought of the flywheel/flexplate thing, btu the sound definitely eminates from thowards the front of the engine, and the flywheel wouldnt make it run like junk all of a sudden

thanks for the ideas guys

 

I had a cam bearing go out on me years ago .. upper engine/valvetrain noise towards the front that was a ticking more than a knocking under load but the engine tune didn't change noticably but oil pressure dropped about 10#

PS - tried calling, goes straight to Vmail. If its OK with you, I'll send the gift cert. up with the $25 with either Bruno or Larry to the spring meeting - I cant make it. Either can bring it down for me

... or Eric ? didn't I read your selling him some carb parts ? he's blocks from me

Let me know if we're still cool on that deal

 

yea thats good I will bring the carb alan thanks edit: sry my phone is all messed up. i need to get a new one. sometimes it doesnt ring etc

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

More 430 data:


Got it back together and started. When cold the noise comes and goes. when hot it is constant. Rockers make no unusuial noise at any time.
They were loud after reassembly until the lifters pumped up and now I get only normal rocker clatter.

When the knocking noise goes away the car runs great. when the noise comes back the car runs like crap.

Timing is solid at 12deg BTDC

Mechanics stethoscope shows its not the fuel pump. Inspection shows carb is filling and staying filled.

Stethoscope says noise is drivers side, near the front of the carb fore and aft.

At idle, with it knocking away, I pulled plug wires and grounded them one by one. Here is the news I am excited about: pulling plugs made no difference. I would think a lower end bearing would quiet up when I pull the right wire.

I feel like I am missing something.

any more thoughts?

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

probable lifter and or oiling problem, drivers side?

 

Hook up a vacuum gage to it to see if it's a warm-onset vacuum leak. Also did you ever run a warm compression test on all cylinders? It might shed light or at least eliminate some theories if all cylinders check good. You already said 12 degrees timing was solid-even when running rough?

 

Well we're running out of things it could be, other than stuff you probably won't want to hear, like a wrist pin or something in the lower end.

Knocking sound is intermittent dependent on temperature, and makes the engine run rough. Does it run rough only at lower rpms or idle or?

Have you checked the harmonic balancer? The cam isn't stock and the engine has a different harmonic balance now, and if the harmonic balancer is cracked or checked, it could be causing some off-balance issues that make the engine vibrate a lot and appear to be running rough.

It would also potentially cause a knocking sound if the outer part was smacking up against something.

G

 

WOOOO got it.

Long story made short: there was a small pocket of air getting trapped in one lifter. It was not bleeding out. I put two and two together when I noted the position of the knocking and the fact that this particular lifter had been a little more difficult to get out of its bore - possibly mushroomed a little due to the impacts. Not much to go on but it was the right guess.

The only indication that anything was amiss with the lifter on inspection was that when the top cap came off the lifter very little oil came out. The lower reservior of the lifter was full of oil. I cleaned it up real good and reassembled. the knocking cleared up after a few revs to get oil thru it.

once that was fixed the car still ran lousy. blue smoke out the passenger exhaust.

I pulled the plugs on pass side and lo and behold one spark plug showed signs of an impact and the electrodes were in contact, shorting the spark. Not sure what could have got in there but something small did. hehheh maybe a mouse. I believe it has gone out the exhaust at this point

Re gapped that spark plug and it cleared up the blue smoke.

Runs much better and WITHOUT KNOCKING!

I am going to stew in my success for a little bit, and then I will proceed with actual power tuning. I expect a smoother idle with more timing.

THANKS everyone for your ideas and for being a sounding board for my thoughts.

I just want to drive my car and do big smoKey (TIRE smokey that is....) burnouts!

K friggin G !!!!!!!

 

Glad to hear it all worked out for you. I know you're happy now!

Heck of an engine, that 430.

 

Great news! Let's see the burnout!

 

I wonder if the non-pushrod oiling lifters are more prone to catching and keeping a bubble like that.....Ive never had it happen before.

 

drove it today....runs great! So pleased to be back on the road.

 

Congratulations. Just curious what brand / model are your lifters?

 

Glad you were able to get that worked out. I've a had a few of those kinda situations lately and I'm no fun to be around until I get them sorted out. Eats at ya..

Good work!

 

they are the original GM lifters that came OEM in the 430

yes i did put in a new cam without new lifters.

 

lol awesome! this might explain a thing or two, and i'm not being sarcastic, it is awesome that the thing works.

make sure to keep that oil changed with the good stuff, and don't forget the additives.


G

 

It was a "budget build", right?

 

Ssshhhh not so loud. You'll get reamed mentioning that around here!

 

yes this was an exercise in cheapness, on purpose. (and I thought for just a moment it might have bit me in the butt)

It even still has all the mismatched spark plugs it had when I got it.

I think the thread was called econo build 430 originally.

alls well that ends well. we will see how long it lasts. MAN its great to drive again!

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

edit: here is the link to the original econobuild of this engine.
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?226840-430-econo-build&highlight=econo

I had regasketed it stock cammed then ran it a short bit then pulled it out and let it sit. This past winter I added the comp268 cam to it.

It is now coupled with a built 200-4r and a 3.73 8.5 posi rear. Also I put in a Pertronix flamethrower HEI setup that i got cheap on the board.

I have been driving easy to let things "settle in" a little bit, but I am eagerly anticipating getting into the heavy throttle. Its got lots of giddyup even just in the primaries.

 

Yeah,you gotta love those "budget build" guys on a 95 degree day when you're waiting in line at the drag strip in full sun,and that "budget build" guy thows a rod through his oilpan,and you have to wait 45 minutes before the track gets cleaned up so the cars can run again.:bla:

Good times!:af: