The car is just coming out of storage and is running but not well, so I'm giving it a tune up tomorrow morning. The plugs and wires haven't arrived yet but I have everything else. I threw the timing gun on it this afternoon and the timing wasn't even close; it was so far off I'm surprised it still ran. At first it was showing past the 12 degree mark but quite a bit. Then I remembered to pull off the vacuum advance. It nearly stalled and then the timing was gone past 0 the other way. I was reading through the manual and it seems pretty simple, although I haven't tuned up a car in years. I just swap out the points, cap, rotor and vacuum unit. Set the dwell, the idle and timing? As far as I can tell in the manual it should idle at 500 in gear. Anything I'm missing? jeremy
Pretty much; - there are of course things that can go south on you, so keep alert. I would suggest you find a vacuum gauge, set the timing with the light and then see if you can improve it a bit using the gauge. It'll also tell you if your motor is in reasonably good health or give you the symptoms of major problems that are starting if you know how to read one right.
I do have a MityVac and believe they can be used as a vacuum gauge. How does one tune the timing with a vacuum gauge? jeremy
You're right, things can go south. I warmed it up, swapped in the new points and nothing. I set the running block on a cam lobe, closed the points and backed the screw out 180 degrees, as per the manual, but still nothing. Old points going back in tonight, hopefully it will fire up easily
Use a quality set of points. Most of them are junk, especially the ones with the condensor built in. I use Accel points and condensor, pricey but good. I have 5 years and ~8000 miles on mine w/o issues or needing any attention. Same goes for cap and rotor. I use Accel for both. The weight is noticeably heavier than most of them out there. Better than Petronix conversions, IMO, as they won't leave you on the road high and dry. I like older cars because they are simple and can generally be fixed alongside the road. I used a good quality set of 7mm plug wires. I don't recall the brand. I also used an adjustable vacuum cannister and Champion copper plugs. Remember that the #1 cylinder is on the right bank (passenger side) of the engine. My engine is stock except for a 750 CMF Edelbrock carb. I set the initial advance w/o vacuum at 5 degrees BTDC (2.5 degrees is the "factory setting). She runs good, even with over 105,000 miles on the ticker. You might want to do a compression check just to be sure there are no major issues. Do a dry run first with throttle and choke held full open. If the compression seems low add a little oil to the cylinders and test again. If the compression goes up it could be bad/sticky rings or it could be just due to sitting and the cylinder walls have gone dry. If the compression doesn't improve you may have burnt valves or worse. Personally I'd run some Marvel Mystery oil in the first couple tanks of gas as it will help lube the upper end and pistonj rings after the engine's long slumber. Good luck and keep us posted.
I was on another forum before trying to find out what brand of tune up parts guys use but nobody offered up anything. After reading around online I wound up with Standard Blue Streak points (yes, with built in condenser), rotor and cap. Can you give me the Accel part number? What do you consider expensive? Why five degrees? Do you need to move it as the engine gets older? I put Seafoam in the first tank, which is still 3/4 full. I'll do a Marvel Mystery Oil next time. jeremy
NAPA has both quality & cheap stuff. Get the quality stuff & don't look back. Points & condenser are separate, dist. caps have brass contacts inside. The only problem is the rotors. They are the cheap white rotor. Only place I know as of the moment is the rotor from a Corvette from a Corvette supplier.
Do you have a name and part number for the good points? I don't want to wind up with another bad set. I'm working two blocks from Lordco and NAPA today so I'll pick them up after work. jeremy
Accel points and condensor set #8104, $36.97 @ Summit Racing Accel rotor and cap set #8124, $26.97 @ Summit Racing I used 5 deg BTDC because that's were my car seems to perform best. No dyno or 1/4 mile times, just seat of the pants. I run 93 octane gas always. No pinging. I run 10W30 Valvoline oil (not sythnetic) with 4 oz od ZDDP additive, also from Summit. I use only Wix oil, air, and fuel filters. I don't run the stock metal fuel filter in the bracket near the thermostat housing as it contributes to vapor lock, IMO (I have one there for looks only). I use a Wix 3003 3/8" in-line fuel filter between the chassis and carb. Take a look at some of my previous posts/threads to see what I have done to make my car nearly bulletproof, even on the hottest days at altitude. I've got as lot of good advice from Doc and Tom T (and others too many to mention) on this board.
As soon as Amazon gets more points in stock I will order a set. It's funny that most web vendors require me to search for Accel 8104 to find it; it doesn't turn up in the results when browsing for points after selecting my engine. My stock fuel filter is long gone and I'm running an inline one also. Can you post a picture of your original style filter? I would like to see what one looks like installed. So busy right now but I'm looking forward to reading up on what you've done. jeremy
Also, do these points come with new screws? When I pulled the cap off I noticed that the points were one screw short and despite many trips to hardware stores I'm coming up empty. jeremy
No new screws with the points. Try Lowes or your Napa store. Both usually have a decent selection of machine screws. I am thinking they are #8-32 x 3/8" long. You may have to cut one down to the correct length. I'll take a clear pic of the OE fuel filter location tonight.
The very basics of a vacuum gauge: 1) Make sure the car is at operating temperature, hook up vacuum to manifold vacuum. Look at gauge, it should be reading between 16-22 inches depending on altitude above sea level. (Every 1000 ft. equals -1 inch, so a car at 21" would be 20" at 1000 ft.) A quick opening and closing of the throttle will cause the needle to bottom out and then swing back past the 22 mark before settling down again. This is assuming that the point gap and the dwell are set properly. The needle should be fairly steady, not bouncy. Older engines will have a lot of "noise" on the needle, but it should never dip below 1 inch off the top mark. If it is very bouncy and deviates between 2-3 inches on each swing, there are probably valve or camshaft issues happening. If the needle swings as much as 5-10, then there are probably cracked or shot rings and or compression issues. Low vacuum means a serious carb or manifold leak, or no compression. 2) To set: Baseline your timing with a light, and see where it shakes out. Car is running at idle. Ensure idle speed is correct. If your carb is goofed up, you will actually start losing vacuum if the carb wants to run off-idle and into the power circuit when you set the idle. Open up or close your mixture set screws to obtain the max vacuum. Once the idle is set, move the distributor to maximize vacuum, watching that you don't start increasing the idle speed too fast; it should only climb at most about 1 inch; - any more than that can put you in the "off-idle " circuit of the carb. Now once this is maxed out, test drive the car; - it should give a hint of pre-ignition rattle when punched hard (but no more than one "rap", any more and you're damaging the engine) If there is too much pre-ignition knock, back off the distributor and readjust the timing. It's not as good as using an old Bear or Sun tune up oscilloscope, but it works; - the easiest and quickest "old school" way to max out your engine's performance. There is a great chart in any old pre-1970 Chilton's guide on how to interpret vacuum gauge readings. It's quite a science, though once understood you can really "feel" your way around an engine.
:gp: To add to what 66Electrafied said, Edelbrock includes a DVD with their carbs that shows how to use a vacuum gauge to tune your car. I believe you can find the video on their web site or youtube. Here's a pick of the stock fuel filter location: I keep one there for looks but run an in-line filter between the steel line and carb inlet. I believe this is the worst place to put a fuel filter as the bracket is attached to the thermostat housing which will run at least 180 degrees most of the time. Why heat your fuel? I believe it leads to vapor lock, even when using an air conditioning type fuel filter with a return line.
There is a fuel filter housing like that in the trunk, I will keep it, although not use it. I've had one of the points screws in my pocket all week, stopping at half a dozen different hardware stores to no avail. These things are hard to find. It seems like most auto wreckers are only open Monday to Friday and I'm not really wanting to take time off work to pick up a tiny screw like this. There is only one near me and they only handle newer than 2000 cars and the old car one is several hours away. I'm going to call him and see if he will mail me a few and what that might cost. Once I have more time I will try to watch that vacuum gauge tuning video. jeremy
If you fully fill out your profile, your location will come up every time you post. Help could literally be around the corner and you'd never know it, and neither will anyone else.
Well, help may not be quite around the corner, but I will be in Victoria in August. I might even flog an old convertible over the Rockies again, see how masochistic I feel. There's a good possibility we could meet up then and I can show you how to use it. I usually have one in the trunk with me.
Let me know if you're in the area. I've driven my car across the Rockies a few times, it's always nice when the weather is good. Last night I put the old points in. I set the gap roughly by the book, started it up and then set the dwell and timing. I put it in gear and set the idle. It's supposed to be 500 but as I got lower it started to sound rough so I set it at 550 for now. It now runs ten times better than it was before and can squeal the tires when I accelerate out of a corner. I'm also hearing what I think is some pinging when I accelerate hard. What do you guys use to adjust the dwell while running? I found it a pain to get the allen key in there, with the coil in the way and such poor visibility. I looked for a allen key socket to use on my ratchet but I couldn't find one that small. I have an allen key Swiss army knife but it's way to big to fit in there and turn. What else can I do to help reduce the pinging? I've already put in premium gas. jeremy
The only time the engine runs at the initial setting is at idle stopped in traffic. As soon as you step on the gas, timing is added by the mechanical and vacuum advance. What you need to do is find out what the timing is when the mechanical advance is at it's maximum. That requires light springs and a dial back timing light. 30-34* total (without vacuum advance) produces best WOT performance. Read my power timing thread. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?63475-Power-Timing-your-Buick-V8
