Hey, it's me again. I'm having problems with my fuel filter. In a previous thread we left off with me putting on a straight thru filter, and blocking the return line. I couldn't sufficiently test it due to other engine problems I was having at the time. I have fixed those other problems, and the motor is still running like crap. It started running poorly when I swapped that filter. Does anyone have any idea what could have possibly happened that would account for this problem?
OK, lets start with the basics,,,, there are 3 areas to be concerned with; 1. the quality of the gas,,, if you know it is good with no contaminates, proceed on...2. the integrity of the fuel line... there needs to be a solid fuel line through out the whole system from the carb to the tank..... no kinks, rust holes in the steel line that can suck air and no dried out, cracked rubber sections that can suck air... good clamps on all of the above.... If the fuel line has a hole in it somewhere behind the mechanical pump it will suck air and not get enough fuel...now, that said... ck the gas cap to see if it is letting air come into the tank... if the vent hose or the cap doesnt allow air to come into the tank it will create a vacuume that will make the car run bad or not at all... loosen the cap and try running the engine and see how it runs... 3. blockage of the fuel line.... undo the line at the tank and blow both into the tank and thru the line toward the carb with compressed air... some times flakes of rust can be knocked loose, rubber flakes can get loose and other thing like nuts, bolts, old cans,gravel,mechanics tools and old shoes....:laugh: :laugh: Along this line... pun intended... you might have gotten a defective filter... try another one,,, and if that doesnt fix it then rig up a special line and gal. can of gas and try that to see if the engine will run... be carefull doing this though... all you have to do is get the container higher than the carb, so the fuel will run down into the system.... a fuel pump [mechanical] also has check valves in it that can get foreign material in them and not work right.... My favorite set up is a Carter electric impeller pump mounted on the frame at the tank, pushing the fuel to the front and a big filter on the pressure side like a big truck uses... pint size, not qt.size... and a 3/8'' line all the way to the carb... with the mechanical pump removed and blocked off....this set up always works good.
is the fuel flow going through the right direction through the filter. i know sometime the cheap ones wont show the directional flow of the fuel. it happens sometimes and can be overlooked.
Have you tried a volume/pressure test? I googled "mechanical fuel pump test" and found several sites with good info. One pint in 30 sec. for volume and 3-5 lbs psi for pressure should be OK
Well everyone, I've tried what you've suggested, and to no avail. I also discovered the timing is way off, and at least one cylinder is mifiring. I've contacted a local classic car mechanic, and I'm scheduled to bring the Electra in on Monday.
I just had a similar problem, NAPA filter, (by the book, the one it called for) in line, and the flow arrow lined up correctly. The car refused to run. It would start, and then die. Lots of presssure, I know unleaded hi-test doesn't taste very good now, but no volume. It has nothing to do with the pump, because it isn't even forty miles old yet. Check the car without the filter in place, (straight-pipe it into the carb) If it runs well, there could be your problem; - if it doesn't, re-read Doc's basics and start from scratch.
Well, I haven't gotten the car into the shop yet, as I'm having a bit of a cash flow problem at the moment. I haven't messed with the fuel filter, and it has been running. I had next to no gas in the tank while I was testing (due to that pesky cash flow isssue) and I managed to get nearly a quarter of a tank, and it starts right up everytime. I'm getting fuel just fine, I'm actually running pretty rich. I assume I won't be running as rich once I get some road time on the sucker. The timing is still way off. I tried adjusting the timing to where it is supposed to be, but everything went to crap, so I put it back to where it was and it started behaving better, but the motor still isn't right. So I'm just waiting to send it to this mechanic so it can become his headache. p
Well from all that has been described,,,, i am going to say it has jumped time at the timing chain.....and it will not run right , no matter what you do to the fuel system... like I say back to the basics....
OK.....the cam and the crankshaft are connected by a timing gears and a chain... the ratio is 2/1, that is the cam runs at half the speed of the crankshaft... thus the cam has a gear that is twice the size of the crank gear..... they are connected by the timing chain.... given enough milage the whole assembly wears out and the chain will stretch and when it gets to be enough slack it will ''jump'' over enough teeth on the gears that the cam is no longer in ''time'' with the crank... When this happens all kinds of mechanical havoc can occur... the valves can be hit by the pistons and bent or broken, or a valve head can punch thru a piston... catastrophic failure is usually the result... but most often the engine just wont run right and cannot be made to run right untill the situation is corrected....The basic test to check the timing is to bring the crank up to no 1 cyl. on the compression stroke to top dead center as marked on the harmonic balancer... then remove the distributer cap and see where the rotor is pointing... should be at no 1 spark plug wire terminal in the cap or very near it ... if not it has jumped time at the chain... from what you describe probably just 1 or 2 teeth... that is why the engine will still run, but not right.. The fix is to remove the fan, fan shroud, belts , pulleys, and harmonic balancer... then remove the fuel pump, and next take all the bolts out of the timing gear cover and water pump that holds it to the engine block and the bolts that are in the oil pan that go into the timing gear cover... You do not have to completely remove the water pump... you will have to remove the heater hoses from the water pump... You will find the timing gear cover to be stuck to the engine,, gently pry it off and the timing chain and gears are right under it... remove the old and install the new aligning the timing marks on the gears up together in between the gears... ck the shop manual on all this proceedure before ,during and after .... when you get the new gears and chain on dont double ck the timing marks,,, tripple ck them,, and dont forget to put the oil slinger back on the crank shaft and the fuel pump eccentric back on the cam nose... some buick engines have the fuel pump eccentric made into the cam, so that is already taken care of... after the timing chain and gears are installed,, go back and ck all the bolts and the timing marks one last time and then clean everything up and paint it while it is easy to do... then reverse the proceedure to reassemble... You can cut and glue a new section of the oil pan gasket between the t/g cover and the front section of the oil pan.... maby this will help....:laugh:
Thanks for the info. I'll look into this. About how long many miles does it take it for this to generally start occuring?
On most vintage American cars about 75 to 80 thousand miles have got most of the goodie out of a timing chain and gears.... Along in the sixties and 70s Buick used a plastic covered cam gear that would peel off making a bunch of slack in the system when it happened...if you replace them put all steel gears and a new chain...
That motor only has 58K miles. But it sat for quite a while in the Oklahoma sun, so I can imagine stuff getting rotted.
Well, sitting in the sun wont affect the t/c and gears... that affects the paint, body and interrior.... age is what causes the plastic to become brittle and peel off the cam gear....that and stress of running....before you start on trying to repair it, get the correct shop manual that covers your car... it will be money saved not money spent.... the knowledge that is in the shop manuals will save way more money than they cost, in the long run, even if you dont do any mechanical work your self.... if you have access to the info, then you know if some one else is doing it right or not...
Yeah, I bought the shop manuals for my '57, and they really helped. I'm sure it would be the same story with the '63. I've actually referred to the '57 manuals quite a bit when fixing up my '63. It would probably be a good idea to get a hold of that literature.
I came to a conclusion. (Actually, my dad came to this conclusion.) I believe my car actually did jump timing because I may have been running it a little bit too hard before it was ready. Running the car relatively hard when it wasn't fit to do so may have cause the jump in timing. Does that sound possible? Anyway, I have to find a steel timing chain to replace the one in there now, but I'm also going to buy a stock fuel filter so that I can cross that off the list and not make any funny modification with the return line. So I have two questions: 1. What is the best kind of timing chain to buy, and is that all I need? 2. Where on earth can I find a stock fuel filter that it's in decent condition?
For the fuel filter, go to a napa store or a good indipendent parts store that has some parts men with white hair, that will remember the cars made back when yours was made.....as for as the timing chain and gears, the very best you can buy is one of the roller chain sets that has a chain like a bicycle.... the next best is a all steel set from Postons or Ta, or Tom here on the board or Carmen Faso of some brand like melling or federal-mogul.....any thing else aint worth fooling with.....and when you change them out ,,,, dont forget to put the oil slinger back on the crank shaft nose.......of course you will need some gasket sealer, [permatex 300,,,[tobaccer spit] , and a set of timing cover gaskets, you will need a harmonic balancer puller, and while you got it out , it would be a good idea to have a radiator shop rod out the radiator..
