Well since it won't be anything much over stock, I figure stock's good. Reconditioned capscrew (with TA's bolts) and cast probably, with TA's bolts on the mains. Nothing fancy. I doubt it'll see 5500. I don't plan on spending too much if I can help it, but I will make sure it's going to be durable enough to handle some abuse and last a long time, two terms that aren't always used in the same sentence! I know what the 350 can handle though, so I'm not too concerned. :Brow: Who knows though. Might find something else competitively priced and go with that. Those hypereutectic pistons didn't look too bad, but I'm a little hesitant to go hypers. TA makes some nice looking production forged pistions for the 455 and 231 which aren't much more than replacement cast pistons. I wonder if those 231's will fit a 350? They're low compression though.
If you are going to use the TA RV-12 cam with 255 degrees advertised duration, a 9:1 compression will give you a 7.8 DCR. It is still best if you can find a rod/piston combination that will let you zero deck the piston without having to machine a lot off the block. At zero deck the piston needs to have 25cc in the dish for 9:1 compression with a .040 head gasket and 58cc head. With the stock rod, a piston with a CH of 1.875 brings the piston to the top so a CH around 1.850 gives you .025" to square the deck. A cast or Hyper piston will let you have tight piston to cylinder wall clearance and will work fine with a stock rod for what you are doing. The one obstacle I'm seeing is a lot of the 350 pistons have a CH closer to 1.800 which is too much material off the block for zero deck. The one exception is the TRW H522P with a CH of 1.855. The problem with it is a 15 CC dish. Too much compression at zero deck. There are variety of V6 pistons that have 8.500 to 8.600 CH and Dish volumes between 25cc to 29cc. Most of them are forged turbo pistons that run a little extra money. The problem I had last time I called Summit for the Probe V6 pistons was, they are only sold in sets of six and individual pistons were not available. One of the cheapest places for rods and pistons is Flatlanders. I haven't called them yet. http://www.flatlanderracing.com/pistons.html The TA 350 cast pistons may have a good CH. Need to call for the CH and dish volume. The TA V6 forged pistons look to be Speed Pro ZL2481F. If that is the case, they have a 25cc dish but the CH is only 1.825 which puts them .050" in the hole. Paul
I have 24 Buick V6 turbo pistons in 60 thou overbore.. SO I have enough for 3 Buick 350 builds... PM me for info if anyone wants them.
I will have to get Mark to dig them up and take a pic, I am not sure on the details it has been a few years.
I called TA and checked on their cast 350 piston. It has a CH of 1.856 and a dish volume of 12cc. It is real close to the TRW H522P piston. Installed deck height is .020" for a compression ratio of 10:1 If the piston is at zero deck the compression ratio is 10.3:1 It looks like to get 9:1 compression so you can use an TA RV-12 cam or equivalent, you need the V6 turbo pistons with 25-29cc dish that can be installed at zero deck height. Paul
If I remember correctly the stock low comp pistons are dished 29cc and the stock high comp pistons are dished 17cc. zeroing the deck on a low comp 8.5:1 engine with a .040 gasket should yield 9:1 comp.
A big thanks to everyone for all this great information. Now I can make a more educated decision.:Smarty: :TU: ---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ---------- So here's the skinny on a 'fo cheap' build that should yeild around 400 ft. lbs.: Find a Buick 350v4 engine (or a v4 manifold for a v2 engine) and basically use the rotating assembly it came with, replacing the bolts on rods and mains. Zero the block and shave the heads to true them up to yeild around 9:1. Port match the intake to heads, cleanup runners, bowl blend, exhaust polish. Exhaust manifold polish work on runners, and open the exit port to 2 1/8" to 2 1/4" and polish, and use '2 1/4"' duals with quiet mufflers. Either 750 Q-jet or edelbrock performer 750 with adapter. Use .040" composite head gasket and composite intake gaskets. Use stock valves, TA rv-12 camshaft, stock springs, check pushrod length and get proper pushrods, stock timing gear/chain set. Use grooved cam bearings, new HEI Mallory distributor, set rev limiter to 5500. New oil pump gears, booster plate, adjustable oil pressure regulator and shims for proper oil pump setup. TA 1536 series high performance water pump. Make sure oil pickup tube is 5/8" and if isn't drill and get 5/8" pickup tube from TA. New OEM type harmonic balancer and flexplate. Possibly true up heads to exhaust manifolds to try and get away without having to use gaskets on those. Along with other stuff I probably forgot off the top of my head and the obvious things associated with an engine rebuild, this engine should run fine off 91-93 octane premium pump gas and last many years. Transmission type as of yet undecided, depending on what I can get my hands on, but since the rear end will need some attention anyway, might as well go with a 3.42:1 and a 200-4r overdrive tranny for gas mileage and more takeoff oompf. Sound good? Sounds good to me! Thanks to everyone for all their help and input. This forum is a great source for input and feedback, and everyone here is awesome! :beer
i wouldnt waste the money on the high dollar hei. stockers can be found for 25 bucks all the time. ---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ---------- and if you want a th350 i have two id sell cheap. im not to far from ya since your searching for a transmission.
Sounds like a plan! When the build start be sure to create a build thread so we can follow the progress. It seems we are following similar paths, I intend to get started this April so it will be interesting to see how things go!
I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on progress complete with step-by-step pics. Hopefully it won't be too much longer before I can dig in and get my hands dirty. @nekkidhillbilly: I'll be sure to let you know if I need one of those trannys. Cheers! G
Gary Are you going to bore the cylinders and use new pistons and rings? Please consider using the TA 1523 timing gear set for 2 reasons. If the block's main line needs to be bored to get it straight, the timing gear set can be ordered as an oversize so the cam chain will still be tight upon installation. With 9 keyways you can also get the cam degreed in within 1 degree no matter how bad the cam registration is off. BTW, You will love the 200R4 tranny. Good choice! Paul
I guess it would depend on how bad off the engine was. Hopefully everything will be ok and I can resuse the same pistons. If the crank turns over fine, it should be straight enough, ja? The engine probably won't be spun past 5300. I thought about that double roller timing set, but the stock one has 4* built into it like the stockers, so would the cam be that off to warrant using a 9 keyway sprocket? Naturally, if it does need align bored then the double roller will be pretty much my only choice. Which reminds me, will it offset the harmonic balancer by degreeing it beyond the stock 4* in either direction? The reason I ask is because the engine is externally balanced as you know, and if the balancer moves with the degreeing it will offset the engine's balance. The engine isn't much more than stock as it is, so I was hoping to get away with going back with mostly stock stuff, other than the cam and port work, a big carb and hot ignition.
The balancer is keyed to the crank so the only thing that is changed is the relationship of the cam to the crank
Hmm. [TABLE] <TBODY>[TR] [TD="bgcolor: #d4000f, colspan: 13"]BUICK V8 350 1968-1980 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]APPLICATION CAMSHAFTS [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef, colspan: 2"] VALVE SETTING[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"] RPM OPERATING RANGE[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"] CAMSHAFT PART NUMBER[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"] CAM GRIND NUMBER[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef, colspan: 4"]DURATION [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef, colspan: 2"]VALVE LIFT @ 1.55 [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]LOBE SEP. ANGLE [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef, colspan: 2"]ADV. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef, colspan: 2"] @ .050” [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]IN. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]EX. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]IN. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]EX. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]IN. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]EX. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]IN. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #efefef"]EX. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPET: The best torque cam for 350 applications. Expect strong low to mid range horsepower and torque gains. Excellent for RV type vehicles, pleasure boats or towing applications. [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] Hyd[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] Hyd[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 1000-5200[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 10920700[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] NA[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 250 [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 256[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 207[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 213[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] .451[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] .470[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"] 112[/TD] [/TR] </TBODY>[/TABLE] __ __ VS __ [TABLE] <TBODY>[TR] [TD="colspan: 4"]Product ID: TA_RV12-350 350H.440"-205'/.468"-215',110' [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: detailimage, width: 100%, colspan: 4"][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 100%, colspan: 4"] Excellent stock type replacement cam which gives an average power gain of 10 HP over stock. Strong low rpm torque, ideal for heavy cars, tow vehicles, V6 & V8 Jeeps. No other special parts required. Smooth idle. 8.0:1 to 9.5:1 CR. Idle Quality: Smooth Idle - just like stock Good Idle - mild lump, but doesn’t impair driveability Moderate Idle - nice performance sound Fair Idle - heavy lump Rough Idle - very lumpy race type idle VALVE LIFT STOCK 1.55 RATIO: IN: .440” EXH: .468” TA ROLLERS 1.60 RATIO: IN: .454” EXH: .483” DURATION AT .050 IN: 205 EXH: 215 ADVERTISED IN: 255 EXH: 262 LOBE CENTER: 110 POWER RANGE: 1000-5500 [/TD] [/TR] </TBODY>[/TABLE] Sorry about the copy/paste confusion, the one on top is a bit off for some reason, but I think we can sort it out
http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm play with some of these calculators to see where your DCR lies with each cam. That will give you one more point of comparison between the two
Wow cool, that'll come in handy dandy. Teach this old dog some new tricks. :Brow: ok, here I am feelin like a dummy. put these specs in, did I do this correctly? [TABLE] <TBODY>[TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Number of Cylinders : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=8 size=5 name=cyl> [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Bore in Inches : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=3.8 name=bore> [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Stroke in Inches : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=3.85 name=stroke> [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Rod Length in Inches : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=6.387 name=rod> [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Static Compression Ratio : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=9 name=cr>1) [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Inlet Valve Closes ABDC : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=255 name=abdc> [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Boost Pressure in PSI : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=0 size=10 name=boost> [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #b0c4de"] [TD="align: right"]Target Altitude : [/TD] [TD]<INPUT value=0 size=10 name=alt> (Feet) [/TD] [/TR] </TBODY>[/TABLE] <INPUT value=Calculate type=submit name=submit> And here was the result. Doesn't look right to me! Static compression ratio of 9:1. Effective stroke is 1.70 inches. Your dynamic compression ratio is 4.53:1 . Your dynamic cranking pressure is 73.70 PSI. Your dynamic boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of 0 PSI is 4.53 :1. V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 34
The top cam listed is the Lunati VooDoo series. There have been valvetrain stability issues with this series because of the steep ramps where they are trying to maximize the "area under the curve" Paul
