I built and owned this exact car for years. I had an 80 X-11 with that I swapped a complete motor trans setup from a 90 Beretta. We actually swapped the hole Beratta dash board into the car. We also used the gas tank from that car as well. floor shifted automatic. That car was fun......just wish it was a Trans Am instead. It was an odd car at the time for a high school kid, it was painted Candy Apple red with gold/silver flames on it. I have a few pics left of that car around here somewhere. I drove that car for 3 years until I moved on.
300sbb_overkill, I see that you have a vortec in one of your cars. Is it injected still or did you back date it?
You better look long and hard at that engine before you do anything. The 3800 in a fwd application may not have all the provisions on it for mounting in a rwd chassis. I've heard plenty of people with V6 f-bodies who found out that they couldn't just drop in a 3800 from any old car. You need a rwd trans with the 3800 bolt pattern, also you need new mounting pads/mounts, all new accessories since they'll be placed in different locations, and some other assorted parts from a rwd 3800.
I was thinking about that. With a welder and a tape measure you can make anything fit... But he needs to be sure what hes getting into. From what Ive read, I would recomend an '80s 3.8 and a 2004R if I was looking for the results he wants. That combo is an easy high 20s low 30s MPG combo and 3.8s are dirt-a$$ cheap. He could even run the T5 if he wanted too:TU: And when it came time to go back to a V8, it would be a much easier swap:idea2:
new 3800 has chevy bolt pattern there used to be a kit for dropping the fwds in 4 banger s10s out there
If he wants a cheap easy hi-mpg combo 3.8-2004R-308gears is it. I could do this for under $500 and in a weekend. $600-$800 and a week for a T5 swap. (flywheels/clutch-pressplate-throw-bearings/pedals/linkages- aint cheap and take time) Yes there are better V6 combos, but for what he actually wants thats a waste of time and money.
Just to clarify that - it's the Chevy 60* V6 bolt pattern. There have been S10's with that bolt pattern, so it wouldn't be too hard to mate up to any FWD 3800 (or the late 95-02 F-body RWD version). Oddly enough, even Jeep & Dodge used that 60* pattern - as late as the 96-2000 4 cyl. versions.
Funny many are worried about lack of power when in reality if the mighty stock '70 350 was rated in SAE numbers, it would probably be pretty close to the 3800's SAE horsepower numbers
Yeah,I had a 4,000 lb 77' Pontiac Grand Prix with a 400cid engine that was factory rated @ 150HP and 300 lb ft of torque. With 600-800 lbs less,the 170HP with 220 lb ft should be just fine with the gearing he's going to use.
Not really....70 350 was 315 gross/SAE/260 net and the 3800 NA 200-205. The supercharged at 240 was closer but not if you figure TORQUE into it which with today's cars is pretty pathetic. Used to be torque was always higher number than hp....not often anymore.
I'm sure he was referring to the 2bbl version,and yes the HP is usually higher than the torque on the small newer engines,because they utilize GEARING to get the vehicle moving.Thats why todays vehicles have 6 speed transmissions,and engines with less torque,because the GEARING makes up for it. Gearing=torque multiplication. Yes the more you spin a engine the more fuel it uses,but he will be spinning 2 less cylinders,the extra spinnig will make up for the lack of torque,and when the car is up to speed the shift into O/D will save fuel. Here is an out take from the TA catalog about gearing; "Now Available in 3.42 and 3.64 ratios making the Buick Rear Enda contender for your performance needs. Enormous performancegains can be achieved with just a simple gear ratio change. Youwill not get full potential from a performance engine ortransmission unless you complete the package! Replace thoselame cross country gears with something that has teeth!" Gearing seems to be the upgrade a lot of people here seem to overlook when making their cars more performance oreintated. It seems like a lot of people want to upgrade the engine with a big cam,and even install a better stal converter,but wonder why it doesn't launch as good as the 2bbl version. When upgrading a car,the whole driveline should be taken into consideration,and upgraded in tandum to achieve your performance goals.
The extra gears in todays cars are more for economy than performance. a 3 or 4 speed automatic with a looser torque converter can get same performance at the expense of gas mileage. Personally I find the new cars annoying to drive. Move the throttle a little and they drop down a gear. I love me a torqey car that makes the speedometer move up quicker than the tach. Of couse that's "old school"....until you beat someone.:laugh:
Yeah,I love me some torque too!! Todays gearing mixed with the old school torque makes for one hell of a performer! Not to mention the fuel economy benifits that comes with it.:Brow:
Been trying to double check that....I believe the bellhousing pattern is the same. The 94-95 S10 bell didn't have the 17* twist to it that the F-body trannies use. Oddly enough, it's a vertical pattern that uses the Ford style T5.....as are some Jeeps.
it should be cause the 3800 would bolt to the same trans as a 3100 and the 3100 bolted to the same trans as a ecotec 2.2. the 3100 was offered in a malibu and some cavilers along with the ecotec. the 3100 and the 3800 was in the w bodies.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think that this thread would have so much discussion! Some are very against the idea, others don't see a problem and many others are somewhere in-between. Truth be told, the 3800 swap is at present only a possibility. I would love to find a 300 to run in front of the T-5. I'm still deal making with my father in law. I have my doubts about it going through. If I have to, I already have a 305 sbc that I could stuff in the car to get it on the road, but I'd rather have a Buick engine sitting in that bay. I've seen a cheap Buick 350 core here in the parts for sale, but the freight to get it here, makes it $$$. A lot can happen in between now and when the car is ready for a driveline.
I was referring to the 2bb.. Pushed my first car, a 1968 Skylark, along nicely, even with the two speed tranny. I think if someone dyno'd a completely factory stock 350 many would be quite disappointed to find out that the "gross" HP numbers were overrated from the factory, even for "gross" numbers. I know that is the case with the nailhead. Many seem to think their cars are packing a bigger punch than they really are, and I think that is because of the more visceral nature of the cars we drive. Loudness & roughness is perceived as going "fast". The newest car I've ever owned was a supercharged '98 Riviera, and although it didn't feel as quick as my '64 Riviera with a fresh 425 with some speed tricks, it blew the doors off the old Rivi, every time.
