Hi all, So I have a '59 LeSabre that was my Grandfather's. Of course it has a 364 Nailhead and I am on the fence about rebuilding it. I was really hoping that I could just freshen it up, but the motor has some issues. The goods: The rotating assembly looks great. The bearings still look good and per plastigauge are still in spec on all. Thrust bearing is not worn and the endplay is in spec. The heads look like they were rebuilt within a couple of years of the car being parked. In fact the castings are later 401 / 425 castings. They have the bigger valves and higher ratio rockers. That being said I think the '59 364 already had those from the factory. I have a factory 4bbl intake laying around for it. The bads: Lots of rust inside the block. I have been cleaning it out, but I even found remains of old freeze plugs inside. I hope the block is not hurt because you know it had to have overheating issues. Looks like I have approx .006 taper in the cylinder walls. I don't have a dial bore guage, but I measured the gap on a compression ring at different heights and got about .019 difference from the top right before the ridge and about half stroke. So now a hone and re-ring is out of the question. At this point I am worried about how much I will spend building this motor and how reliable it will be after the fact. I will need to have it bored .020 for sure, cleaned, probably decked, replace cam bearings, new cam, maybe get away with polishing the crank and all new bearings of course, new oil pump??, water pump, etc. Then I still need to have the heads checked out. They don't have hardened seats for sure, but I've heard you can get away without them on old Nailhead and BBB heads. Not sure if that is really true. On top of this, I need to find a builder who won't screw it up. Most likely I'll need to go see Mike at TA. I'm scared that at the end of it all I will have a lot of money into this motor. Thoughts?
a 364 has more power than you would expect.... those old cars were very heavy and the 364 would move them very well....:Brow: a good rebuild along with mods from my list of cheap tricks and the ol gal will surprise you.....:Brow::grin:
If the block checks out ok,you can have the crank stroked .050" and use narrowed BBC rods with a set of Tom's(Telriv) custom pistons at .020" over would be 371 CID and you can get the compression you want without major block and head machining with Tom's pistons.The BBC rods would allow the use of a longer rod with a shorter piston for less rotating weight. With only .023" removed from the BBC rods from the thickness on the big end using BBC rod bearings should be ok. Possibly you could use a 401/425 crank also for even more cubes and still stroke it .050" if one of those crank fit the 364 block? I couldn't find the deck height specs for a 364 to recommend a rod length,perhaps Tom knows that info as well? Less than 401 cid the air flow of a Nail Head head would allow more RPM and more upper rpm HP potential,with slightly less torque. Less cubes with a Nail Head isn't nessasarilly a bad thing,and with the mentioned above mods is only 30 less cid than a 401. More overbore would net more cid if thats what you want,contact Tom and ask him how much overbore the 364 can handle or have the block sonic teasted,and ask him about parts he can probably save you some $$.GL Derek
I would agree with this. I have commented several times before that I ran 264 Nailheads against many larger displacement engines with success. The 264 used the same heads (and valves) as the 322. Thinking about it, the 264 breathed better. The 364 is in the same position when compared to the 401 and 425. Cubes are great, but they are not everything.
Most likely it's Tom Telesco! telriv on this forum All the Nailheads were pretty small in the beginning, and when they got bigger the head ports and valves didn't grow much, so a 364 is in the middle of things - it has adequate flow for its power. I believe it may have a broader RPM range than bigger Nailheads.
You know what? I've always heard guys say "anything more than .001 or .003 taper means that you need to bore", but those are guys building high revving race motors. My GN motor was .002 tapered but still in spec and the builder said it had to be bored. Then again, I am pushing over 600hp out of it and beat it every time I go out. As for the 364, looks like max taper before needing to bore is .008 per the Buick manual. I need to get a hold of a dial bore gauge and get a real number on this. If it is within spec I'm just going to get the block cleaned up & checked, hone it, and re-ring it with new bearings.
That'a right Tom Telesco- Tel-Riv one of the Nailhead Triumvirate You have the other two of the Nailhead Triumvirate , John Codman and Doc, weighing in already
Depending on what you do with the engine,,, All out competition - rebuild.... driver and occasional race at the strip day... overhaul.... be sure to install new cam bearings..... along with the main, rod, bearings... and oil pump, T/C and gears... use steel gears, not the plastic coated alluminum factory ones.... do a good hone job,,, and use moly rings....and as I always say:Smarty: ''If it aint clean enough to eat out of,,, it aint clean enough to put together'':Smarty::laugh::laugh: Be sure that you break down the rocker arm assemblys and scrub the insides of them with a rifle cleaning brush and a good cleaner like simple green .... really strong.... you can submerge the parts in simple green and leave them 24 hours and then the crud will come off real easy with a hot water rinse.... then follow with a solvent rinse and compressed air.... you will be amazed at the crud that comes out of the shafts.... Dorman sells the end plugs.. or if worse comes to worse you can make some out of brass or soft iron round stock.... use the modern rear main seal.... put the engine together using light moly grease on the cam, lifters, rod& main bearings, cam bearings, pushrod ends,,, rocker arm shafts (outside, not inside) and rocker arms (sockets and tips).... then have confidence in your engine,,, it will last a looooong time....:Smarty::laugh:
Thanks Doc! Don't forget this motor is going in a '59 Buick LeSabre, so there is no chance in Hell that I will race it. The only things I originally planned to do to the motor performance upgrade wise were to put on my 4bbl intake, do dual exhaust, and something other than the stock cam since I will be replacing it and the lifters anyway. Any recommendation on a cam? Maybe just a stock 401 cam? I wouldn't mind putting something in with a little lope even if I sacrifice some low end though. Also have a question about rod and main bolts. Ive only built 4 motors. On 2 I had ARP studs for mains and had the machinist resize my rods for ARPs as well. The other 2 I just reused the stock bolts. Since stock bolts will be fine on this motor, do I reuse the stock ones or get new ones? I know new bolts on the main caps is no issue, but is there a problem with buying new stock style rod bolts?
My .002, the bigger valves won't improve much bigger valves are for a bigger bore size. 364 2v May be lower compression so that's good for pump gas but bad for performance. Make sure you use steel head gaskets not multi layer felpro. No need in lowering the compression! I would go with a modest cam and a 4v intake. Maybe mill the heads some and call it a day... It's hard to go wrong with a nailhead. I do luv all nailheads! Ken
My motor has 10.0:1 compression just like the 4v motors. Same everything except for the intake manifold, but I have one of those. They started putting the bigger valve heads and higher ratio rockers on the 364 in '59 from what I've heard. The heads on mine already have that, but the casting #'s on them match up to a later block. My grandfather got the heads rebuilt on it not too long before he parked it. They may have just swapped them. Either way that's what I've got and that's what I'll go with. I've seen some say the heads / rockers I have with the 4bbl intake and dual exhaust are good for an additional 50hp or more. I'm cool with that.
On any engine for street / strip ,,, I would just inspect the bolts good and reuse them.... on nailheads it is not the bolts that fail it is the stock pistons... they will blow down into the oil pan and then the wrist pin hammers a 4 sided trail up and down the cyl wall.....not good..... high mileage pistons that is..... In its class,,,,, and properly set up,,, that 59 big car will hold its own on the strip.... fun racing.... and as racing goes, cheap.
