I wish someone could clear this up, some of the sites show Borg Warners up to 69, and saginaws in 70 (3 speed applications) Ive checked so many buick/chevy/pontiac sites with no definitive answers At this point, Im sick of looking!!!! :af: What a great addition to any buick site, that this transmission information be available i.e. 3 or 4 speed with part #'s of all shifter housings, levers, mounts, etc Transmission availability, whether it be 3 or 4 speed muncie,3 or 4 speed saginaw, borg warner, M20, M21, M22 rock crusher, wide or close ratio etc. There's a book that I thought was "Here to save the day" that was just listed on ebay on vintage hurst shifters http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hurs...ryZ33736QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem But when I asked about buick shifters being listed, he's only seen a few buicks with 4 speeds, "My book covers all kinds of Hurst shifters a manual transmission Buick is a pretty uncommon & manual transmissions, in general were not really associated with the Buick nameplate as much as they would have been back then with, say Pontiac or Oldsmobile". But if I bought the book, and didn't find the info needed, I could always email him. NOT.....you answered my ?? He seems like a nice guy, just has no more info than I can get here. I want to mention there's a few guru's on this board that gave me very helpful information via pm's, and I want to thank them, you know who you are :TU: :TU: Unfortuanetly the question of 3 speed saginaws in 1970 small block GS's is un-answered o No: I think its sloan time
adding 2 the funcusion? Hi. I gotta chime in here. Many MANY moons ago, (1981?) I met a fello thru an MG club I had started. He owned a 70 GS 455, 3 speed. . ORIGINAL OWNER. The car was a total rustbucket. Lived on St Pete beach. Anyway I ended up buying the whole 3 speed setup. .COMPLETE with Saginaw trans, Hurst/Buick 3 speed shifter, linkages, console with 3 speed shift medallion. .pedals, the works! (wish I woulda known how RARE that car really was??) Anyway, I never really took a close look at the "numbers" on the trany, but I assume it was original only cause he bought the car new locally (Adcock Buick, St Pete). I guess I should go down and take a look at identification numbers. .and part numbers. .BUT what good would that research do me IF there is no good usable cross-reference info available? O&BTW. .YES. .I still have that original setup. I "think" its all there. .and NO, its not for sale. Well, not yet anyway. Even tho this info still doesn't lend itself to concrete evidence of Buick 3 speeds, it does however mean that 3 speed 1970 Buick 455's DID indeed exist!!! I KNOW. . I SAW ONE! :beer Wheelz, Tampa Bay
Ive already had an owner (no names mentioned) of a 70 GS 350 3 speed already respond, he's had the car many years, and he said he thought it was a muncie, but that it was cast iron, which as far as I know was never possible, even the 3 speed muncies were aluminum case. Please correct me if Im wrong, you wont hurt my feelings. Ive asked him to verify whether its a 7 bolt cover which is correct for muncie or saginaw, the BW has a 9 bolt cover Also the saginaw has the reverse lever in the cover, and the muncie in the tail Oh and if you ever want to sell the whole shabang :Brow: , shoot me a pm
This guy should be able to help you. http://www.precisionpontiac.com/ The easy way to tell on the three speeds is the three mounting holes on the tail shaft. They are opposite between the two. One hole on top or two. Look here. http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/trans_id.pdf HTH John
Thanks for info :TU: , unfortuanetly I believe thats the same gentleman that I spoke with, he wrote the book I refered too This site has a little more info http://www.nastyz28.com/transid.html
Well I'll be damned, this is some info I just recieved I just figured out where I got the idea that the GS was a Muncie 3 Speed. The service manual. If you look in the 70 service manual, there is 1) a skylark 3 speed, column shifted, 2) a Lesabre, Wildcat HD 3 speed column shifted, 3) a GS, GS 455, GS 455 stage 1 3 speed Muncie (states it right in the title),and 4) a GS, GS 455, GS 455 stage 1 4 speed. Also, I have an engine swap book that shows a saginaw and a Muncie 3 speed. Both have a caution about mistaking one for another. I looked at mine and all I could see to figure out is that it is cast iron ( magnet test ). I read your thread and I think looking for the reverse lever on the tail or case will not work on a 3 speed. 3 speeds only have 2 levers. First and reverse/ 2nd and 3rd. Also, by the weights listed in this swap book, the saginaw and the muncie both should be cast iron. Both weigh more than a muncie 4 speed that is aluminum and around the same as a saginaw 4 speed that is cast. You may have the right tranny and are mistaking it for a saginaw. Both have 7 bolt covers. If you can look at yours, The saginaw side cover has 2 bolts on the bottom and one sticking up on the top. The muncie shows 3 across the bottom and two on the top. Also, the saginaw on the tail where the shifter mounts, has three bolt holes, two on top and one below. The Muncie also has 3 holes to mount the shifter. It shows one on top and two below. And mine has 3 bolts across the bottom and 2 on top, learn something everyday
3 spd on the floor here are the numbers off my sons 70 GS 350 3 spd on the floor Main case GM 3 3952662 tail GM1 3911942 Don't know the brand but I do know it is the original. Hope this is of some help to someone more in the know than I
Pontiac quit using the Dearborn "toploader" HD 3spds after the '69 model. Years ago, I owned a rel low option '69 Judge that had its original Dearborn 3spd. Pontiac went to using HD Muncie (cast iron) 3spds in their higher torque '70 V8 applications. The HD Muncie 3speeds were used through the '72 model in Pontiacs A-bodys & F-bodys. GT-37s in late '70 & '71, & LeMans GT's in '72 came std with the HD Muncie 3spd. Lower torque applications like 6cyl Firebirds & Tempests used the Saginaw 3spd. :3gears: Roger
muncie 3 speed cast iron muncie's were standard in gto's ,i have owned a 68 &71 with them. i would guess buick got them also.
