Im building a 79 Skyhawk for SCCA/Solo II/street duty. It currently has a, ahem, 327 Ch*** engine (the car also has 3:73 gears, custom subframe, 4 speed, 15 wheels, usual mods) Want to convert it to Buick power, but cant decide on an aluminum 266 (215 w/300 crank) or a 350. I know I can expect good torque from the 350, but it will save me only 70 lbs over the Chevrolet vs. 200 lbs for the 266. Either one I use will be rebuilt. It needs to have some power, obviously, but handling is just as, or more important. I have quite a bit of Pontiac engine experience; just a little with Chevrolet. Need some opinions from those of you that have experience with the Buicks. Specific 350 questions: 1. Is there any particular year that is better than others? 2. Any heads that are better than others? 3. Best compression ratio to shoot for on pump gas? 4. Any oiling system problems? Any other weak spots? 5. Is it true that 350's are unique, and parts do not interchange with others (except a few V-6 parts)? 6. What kind of torque/HP can I expect from a common performance rebuild? 7. Maximum safe overbore? Can it be made 'square' or 'oversquare'? 8. Best parts suppliers? T/A & Poston? 266 questions: 1. Will I like its throttle response compared to what Im used to now? 2. Do you think the weight advantage will make up for the loss in power? 3. Best heads to run? Stock aluminum or cast 300? Year? + anything else you can think of, in as much detail as you have time for. All opinions appreciated. :Smarty:
68-80 Buick 350 Maker Size Bore Stroke Mains Rods Buick 350 3.80 3.85 3.00 2.00 1. The later rods are better and the newer blocks are said to be cleaned up a bit 2. Later heads have larger valves but need to be decked because the have large ccs. There were some early high output 350's though that had larger valves I believe. 3. Shoot for 10:1 to 9:0 4. Plastic timing gear 5. Yes and yes 6. 350 hp is easy even with 8.5:1 7. 40 over is pushing it, sonic test past 30 over (edit don't go past 30 over) 8. For now they are the only main companies but hopefully things will change 266?s 1. maybe 2. no 3. search on here for old threads
The 215 is a dinosaur. Even regular replacement parts are practically extinct. Sure it's a neat little engine, but look at it logically.... For an extra 130 lbs [by using the 350 over the 266] you get almost an extra 100 cubic inches. Plus you save 70 lbs over the sbc. Maybe even more if we get aluminum heads, which may be comming soon.
If you really want to save weight and keep it buick then throw a Buick V6. The 77-87 Buick 3.8 V6 is a even fire motor that can use the fuel injection that came on the regals. Easy on gas and cheep to get a few hp. I'd still go Buick 350 though!
I've talked with a couple of guys who have used the 266 in these same cars and seem to like them handling-wise, but they all say it won't act like the sbc. D&D Fabrications in Detroit has all the parts needed to put one together. I like the idea of the all-aluminum engine, ability to run 11:1 compression, and the weight savings, but I realize there's "no replacement for displacement". I was certain at one point that I wanted the 266, but now I'm leaning towards the 350. Doesn't seem to be a hard swap, from what I've been told. It does require a mid-'70's exhaust manifold (with some sort of notch in the center of the driver's side?) to clear the steering shaft. May have to make my own headers. So, 350 HP is easy? Sounds interesting. What needs to be done to achieve that? What sizes are the standard valves vs. the 'large' valves? Do you run into shrouding problems with the larger valves? The car originally had an even-fire V-6....just had to have a V-8, even with a weight penalty. Thanks for the responses so far.
In my opinion to get 350 hp: Any good block that hasn't been bored over 20 thou. Deck block after you get the piston hieght in cylinder measured. Use either Poston or TA pistons, and tell them your looking for 11:1 compression. Iron heads with larger valves and shave the heads to gain compression (TA or Poston). Ballanced stock bottom end, either all reconditioned stock parts or complete assembly and send your cores to them. Headers, stock intake, Q-jet, good ignition, gap and index plugs, recurve stock dist, thats it. Find a cam that suites your rpm needs. Port the heads and you can find more power.
I've done the 350 Buick V8-Skyhawk swap I posted in Dec of 2004, I think in Wet Behind the Ears, my particulars on this topic. I am typing impared so, please use the search button and query KS_Skyhawk. Check it out. I will be happy to help in any way. Also, check out http://V8monza.com. Roger Logan KS_Skhawk
Hello Roger Yeah, Roger, I'm on V8Monza.com as BareBonesRaceCars. We've talked before. I'll probably be in touch again as this thing progresses.
"There's no replacement for torque." Aluminum might be lighter but I can see you maybe not as fast into turns but powering out of them like a bull running people down wearing red.
350 questions Does the 350 need aftermarket (ARP) rod bolts? What is the maximum safe RPM for a stock bottom end? Will a V-6 manual flywheel interchange, or is it unique? Even or Odd fire? How is the valve train adjusted? Shimming shaft stands or adjustable pushrods? Is the stock rocker/plastic locator clip/etc. adequate?
Reid- Use the 73 and up cap screw style rods for your buildup,,, infact, use the latest block and rods you can get your hands on. The last couple years of production the buick 350 was beefed up a little with additional webbing in the bellhousing area. The cast armasteel cap-screw rods are as good as it gets for us, unless you want to fork over $$$ for C&A custom forged rods. ARP bolts are a good idea on any serious HP engine. A stock bottom end should be ok @ 6000 rpm,,, but that may be pushing it a bit. As long as it 'dont see 6k every day, it should last. The 77-up [to 85 I think] V6 flywheel will swap over. Infact autozone sells the V8 and V6 flywheel as the same part # Adjustable pushrods are the only way to go. The plastic rocker locator buttons are fine. I'v only seen a couple of failures in dozens of engines. I'm going to bump Tubbed's "She's alive" post back up to the top. Read thru it, almost every question you could ever want to know about a performance 350 buildup is in there!
Thanks very much, Darryl. Don't know much about these engines but I'm learning. Getting more and more intrigued as I research it.....seems to me the 350 will do what I want. With an aluminum intake it looks like it will only be 80 lbs heavier than the 266, but much more power potential and probably easier to get parts. Will check out the post you just mentioned. Really don't think I need that 1K HP 350, but I love it's potential!
Tubbed's motor peaked @ 531 hp., and the only "trick" pieces in it are the light weight pistons, and the ported heads. Bill got over 500 hp on his 1k motor when they base-lined it WITHOUT the blower, and it has [if I remember correctly] only about 8:1 compression. Now make no mistake that both of these motors were built by world class engine builders with years of expirence. And you can bet that every single part was blueprinted, ballanced, and scrutanized to the max... But for the most part, any bone-headed chevy guy following either of these basic recipes could build a 400+ hp motor with their eyes closed. While were on the subject, what special parts or machining is required to put the 300 crank into the 215? I remember reading about this in an old hot-rod back in the late 70's, but the details escape me.
The crank is basically a drop-in, but it's about 1/2" longer than the 215 crank and takes a special flywheel to fit the bellhousing/starter correctly. It seemed like it would be a neat set-up, but it would have been a high-rpm engine without a ton of torque. After studying the 350 for awhile, I think I'll like it alot better. Especially since I can get the front end weigh down to an acceptable level. I've built a frame for the car, moved the battery to the back, shaved some nose weight, etc., all to try to lighten the front; Addco swaybars; 5-lug, 15x8" wheels, etc. I've never been a drag race guy, but I've done some circle track with Pontiacs. Always wanted to try road racing so I can turn both right and left. Since it's also a nice-weather street car, it won't need to be high-rpm capable, but dependable, nimble, and quick through the gears.
