215 Buick/Olds V8 & '64 Buick 300 Heads Combo Thoughts?

Jim, you and I are the worst enablers!

 

Your 29 ABCD is at .050. You need to add 24 to that. There is a formula but that is close.

 

Static compression ratio of 10:1.
Effective stroke is 2.35 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.55:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 175.11 PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 8.43 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 95

I'd run 9.5 or 10 compression if cam is retarded 4 degrees.

 

Formula for finding IN Close at ABCD, From Larry on this board:

Simple math to find the closing point..


To find the timing events for the intake:

Divide the Advertised Duration in half and subtract the Intake Center Line from the remainder.

That will give you the opening event. Intake Opens Before Top Dead Center (BTDC)

For the closing event subtract 180 from the duration and then subtract the opening number from that sum.

That will give you the closing event. Intake Closes After Bottom dead center (ABDC)

 

I have read you warnings regarding head bolt torque and/or stripping the bolt holes on other forums, and when I disassembled my 215, I did notice the head bolts were not difficult to remove. No satisfying "crack" release sound, either, as on a cast iron block.

I probably have a few of the topics saved when the head bolt torque was mentioned, so definitely something I will be fully aware of when it comes time to reassemble the engine.

I am going to hold out for a factory 4-speed pattern bellhousing at this point. Time is on my side, and D&D doesn't list prices for much of anything publicly, which, is not great, so I will be patient in my search. I already have the Saginaw pattern World Class T5, so I can rebuild that while I wait, too. I'll have to figure out the clutch linkage (fork, z-bar/bellcrank, etc.) once the drivetrain is in place, but I can do that. I have multiple ball studs for the engine side, and fabbing a frame bracket and pivot isn't a big deal. Heck, I don't even know which brake and clutch pedals I am using, so figuring out the clutch linkage is still a ways off. It looks like new flywheels can be had for $335 or so from McLeod-- I would prefer new over used in this case.

Thanks for the tip on the Ford pressure plate, too.

 

Good luck finding one of those bellhousings. They were rare back in the days when those cars were common, even more rare now. I've only heard of 2 or 3 of them in the several decades I've been aware of them. Also since in the UK they used a different transmission the pattern is different. So it's basically been the D&D bellhousing everyone was stuck with. Which we were grateful to have. The one I bought needed a .012" offset to center up. They do not list the price on their website and the last listing I saw for a used on on ebay... well actually I can't even seem to find a completed listing so that's no help at all. But It would not surprise me in the least if the cost hasn't gone over $600 by now.

Jim

 

Yeah, that's why I mentioned the 3 speed bellhousing, because nobody wants that one. I used one to put a 215 into a CJ5 Jeep over 40 years ago. Used the homemade adapter plate I mention above for a Muncie 4 speed swap. Sounds like you aren't for a hydraulic clutch? The D&D thick adapter only works for the 94 and later Ford T5 with the longer input shaft.

 

Might need a longer pilot bushing with that 3/8" plate but otherwise it should work OK. Well, not entirely perhaps. If the front bearing retainer is thick enough it will but if not then you lose your center registration. It's also possible to make a plate, or to heliarc and tap the correct bolt pattern. I think that's the way I'd go if I found myself with the 3 speed or another bell that looked like it could work. Since the Saginaw 3 speed and the Muncie were the same on the front except for the bolt pattern you can use the transmission to locate the holes. Build up those areas with filler or a tab, mark, drill, tap. Done.

Jim

 

Jim, I did it about 40 years ago and somehow mis remembered the bolt pattern was the same between the Jeep transmissions. Worked good with the Muncie 4 speed in the Jeep. Looks like the 3 speed bellhousing is rare today too.

 

I may have used a longer pilot bushing. Speedway Motors have them.

 

The 2 bells:

 

Yeah that'd be a fair bit of welding. I had one of those adapter plates on a Landcruiser with a 283 V8 installed. It worked.

Jim

 

I understand they are not exactly common, but I've learned to never say never when searching for long OOP things. I can get a Trans-Dapt BH with the 4-speed pattern, so there is an affordable option available, however, it is a fully enclosed style bell, with no separate inspection cover. so I would need to be darn sure my throwout bearing is working properly first. Probably not a huge deal, as I've only ever needed to check a clutch gap once, so I would be okay using the T-D bell.

Ideally, a factory style 4-speed pattern unit would appear, but the inspection cover always seems to be the challenging part to find, so maybe the T-D piece is the more appealing option for me, based on not needing to find the separate inspection cover. I have someone locally digging through his stash of 215s, so hopefully there's a 4-speed bell and cover among the lot.








The T-D part would need a flat cover fabricated for the front face, but I can do that no problem. A clutch fork, pivot, and boot would be needed, too, but not difficult to source.

I did check the combustion chamber volume of my '63 2-bbl Olds heads last night and found them to be 51 cc, or extremely close to that. Admittedly, I used a cheap graduated syringe and no top plate, but with the head level, I think I got close enough for my purposes.

 

Check out this stock HTOP from #8 post on page 1:

Choosing a clutch and HTOB : MG Engine Swaps Forum : The MG Experience

 

I recently used that exact style of TOB on a 4.3L V6/NV3500 project, so it could be an option. Honestly, internal or external hydraulic slave, cable operated, old school mechanical linkage-- I will figure out what works best within the space I have available. Having a 215-specific bellhousing on hand for physical, in-car fitting with the engine block would be helpful for determining how much clearance around/behind the bellhousing I need, so I need to know where the engine and trans are going to rest first.

 

Do the stock Olds 4-bbl piston have valve notches? Pics of the stock pistons are hard to come by, but recently I've seen what may(?) be an all original 4-bbl Olds engine (heads have S and G in the stamped characters and they appear to be shallower chambers than 2-bbl heads) with flat top pistons with four notches. Not sure if that is factory or if that's a sign aftermarket pistons have been added at some point. I only have my 2-bbl pistons to compare, and they are flat top with no notches, just a tiny dimple in the center. Adding to the confusion is the fact that my block is stamped "JN 421" indicating: JN="1963 / high compression ratio / four barrel carburetor" according to the BritishV8 forum post here: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/GM-215-Engine-Identification.htm

Here are some pics of the 4-bbl engine in question, which has a JNM 426 code, so same as mine, save for the Michigan assembly plant "M" stamp.








Head has "S242635G" stamped into it:








One other thing I noted. On my 2-bbl heads, this are of the casting only have one diagonal slash, whereas the 4-bbl head has two (one of them very faint, but I can see it), forming an "X". Is this accurate/true, and an easy way to distinguish between a 2- and 4-bbl Olds 215 head?:






I appreciate all the help.

 

Olds used the same valve notched flat top piston for 2 barrel and 4 barrel. The heads have 51cc for 2 barrel 8.75 and 38cc for 4 barrel 10.25. I heard there was a high performance option with 10.75 compression that probably used the Buick 11.0 flat top with no valve notches.

 

Have you tried the olds heads with 4 bolts instead of 5 and see if the Buick Rockers, shafts and stands would work? I think the valve location is different and you have to use the Olds rockers.
I've used the olds block with Buick heads before but never had Olds heads.

 

Thanks. Are these (the below pictured are from my 215) Buick flat top pistons, then? They have both "GM" and "577978" cast into the backsides of the skirts:

 

They look like it.