Found a neat old LeSabre wagon with 401 Nailhead, kind of looking at it for a travel car, pretty good shape, just needs some cosmetics. What kind of performance can I look forward to? How about gas mileage? I have a 1966 Wildcat with 430 from a 67 Wildcat, runs great but mileage .........at best 16 highway and 11 city........ makes trips a bit expensive......Will I be doing better with the Wagon? Not selling the Wildcat but just give her a rest.............
Been my experieince that a nailhead can deliver pretty good miliage - I've gotten 17-18 out of mine on the highway with 3.23 gears, but I dont think I can ever drive that slow again. Being that the 64 wagon is probably a few hundred pounds heavier, you might not see miliage much better than the Wildcat..all depends on your gearing and driving habits. Just dont get yourself all psyched up that your gonna dive into the mid 20's.... That said - buy it and enjoy it...thats a fairly rare and very cool car! And if you dont like your miliage, PM me and I'll take it off your hands! Put some pics up when you get it!
alot see around 18 with nailheads in rivis cant see it being a whole lot different. i gotta think with a od trans and better gearing a nail would see mid 20s.
Mileage can always be enhanced by adding overdrive and matching gear,HEI,fuel injection,tuning,camshaft selection,vehicle lightening,and all it take is $$$$. Before you do anything,make sure the engine is in good running condition,as in do a compression test,make sure oil pressure is where it is supposed to be,and there are no vacuum leaks. If the engine doesn't pass these tests,a refresh of some sort may be in order(as in a manifold gasket,to a valve job,to a complete rebuild),and at this time cam selection is critical for mileage. Some mods are more expensive than others,but they don't all need to be added at the same time. The first one should be some kind of HEI ignition, the second should be tuning(number 1,and 2 should be done together,and an some sort of air/fuel gauge,or monitor really helps to take the guess work out ),the 3rd one should be some kind of O/D,and matching rear gear(gear,and O/D trans can be added seperately,just make sure you match the gear to the trans you chose). After those 3 mods the mileage should increase by at least 50% if all done properly. If the engine was in good running condition to begin with,and you now want even better mileage,after the first 3 mods,a better camshaft with a more modern grind should help enhance the mileage further. For a cam that will give you better mileage,look for one that the power comes on right after idle,and calls for a stock converter,with a low stal speed.(roller cams can be ground with higher lifts,with lower durations than a flat tappit can,and work really well with fuel injection.) After driving the car for a while and you decide you want even more MPG,and driveability out of it,then Fuel injection can be added. Pick your poison. Vehicle lightening can be done before or after,or skipped,dealers choice. A couple of quick ways to lighten is aluminum drums,sound deadener replaced with a lighter after market Dyno-Mat or equivelent,light weight rims,go on a diet(LOL,not saying you need to,just making a joke),just a few things off the top of my head. And if the price of the car is reasonable,and the car is some thing you want to drive often,then these mods are worth doing. And by doing so,you can make an antique get as good mileage,or better than a newer vehicle. Cool factor divided by cost = worth it,or not worth it. It should still cost less than buying a new car,or SUV after all mods are done,and you'll have a great driver that you won't have to stop at every gas station you pass. By doing all this you are saving the environment by not having all the carbon released in the atmosphere that building a new vehicle creates,because the factory emmissions are grandfathered in with a vehicle that was manufactured many years ago. That combined with enhanced mileage IS the greener way to go. PERIOD! Don't let those hippie tree huggers tell you different!LOL
Well,,,, all of the advice given so far is very good , and right on.... i have a 64 riv that I have done some things to that make the engine more efficent.... all the factories take a car just so far and then stop because of costs and the fact that they have to make the car ''fit all'' in performance and mileage.... then,,, you can go further in the refinement department.... I would suggest this.... 1. run as light as possible, it helps mileage and performance.... 2. keep a razor sharp tune up all the time.... 3. recurve the distributer advance.... this is easy to do and cost little, and is permanent .... 4. build a ''cold air intake pkg'' ,, keeping the heat in the intake manifold as the factory intended....sounds crazy, but that is what works.... 5. I replaced the stock carter carb with a 600 cfm , vac. secondary , holley carb.... that has the idle air bleeds opened up to idle leaner... 6. install a less restrictive exhaust... Buick reduced the size of the pipes from the front to the back.. this is restrictive,, use the same size pipes from the head pipe, thru the mufflers to the tailpipes.... 7. when the opportunity arises , port match the intake manifold to the heads and do my doc dual plane mod to it... also, port match the exhaust manifolds to the heads.... 8. Run a 180 deg. thermostat.... and,,,, I like to run a oversize radiator to be able to absolutely control the temp. with the thermostat.... These things are just ''refinements'' that you can do, they are cheap and easy to do.... and will last the life of the car....I have done them to my 64 riv with a 425 in it and it gets a solid 18 mpg ... I live out in the country so there is very little town driving.... All of these things
Thanks for all the advise .........another problem has reared its head, the TH400 took a dump on me yesterday, plus once I got it on the road it pushed all the water out and ran hot........bnew trans, head gaskets??????? possibly total rebuild on both??? One "friend" suggested small block chevy:eek2:........ still got time to get her going before Summer 2013 but going to take more moneys and effort.... Really like the car though, been looking for a few years....so not selling......this is my first Nail Head so............ new experience. Fatman
So,you bought the car? How hot did it get? If you didn't get it to hot,it might be OK,you can do a compression test to confirm. Make sure you put plain water in it to test the engine,so the coolant doesn't get in the oil if a head gasket is blown. If it is only head gaskets that it needs,then you may want to consider getting a valve job done,and the port matching that Doc mentioned.And while the heads are off,maybe a cam change while it is that far apart anyway. The Nail Head is a great engine,definitely worth keeping it. (sbc= NO!!) Perfect oppertunity to install an overdrive transmission,a Nail Head will need an adapter to install a Overdrive,so you can chose anyone you want. I would recommend a 700R4,because that car probably has a 3.08,or a 3.23 rear gear in it,and it won't have to be changed,if that is the case. Plus the 700R4 is longer than the ST400,it is easier to shorten a driveshaft than it is to make it longer. A 200R4 is shorter than a ST400,but with either trans,you will need a new yoke that will fit the overdrive you chose. Have the shop you take it to change the front yoke while they are shortening it.
a good tuned carb will do almost as good as a efi really also. i think od would be what id do since the trans is dead anyhow. as for it getting hot could be a simple as needing a flushing of the coolant system.
I would agree with 300 overkill, but say 200r4 instead as it has a steeper first gear, better OD ratio, and with an adapter is still shorter than the 700r4
I would be careful about spending a huge amount of money to save a less-then-huge amount of gasoline.
What do you mean by "steeper first gear"? The 700R4 has a 3.06:1 first gear,and the 200R4 has a 2.74:1 first gear. And yes you are correct,the 200R4 IS shorter than the 700R4,but the 200R4 is shorter than the ST400 also,which would mean the driveshaft would have to be made longer,it is easier to take material off,than it is to put it back on. If you want a good balance of performance and gas mileage, the 700R4 the 1st gear multiplication gives you more off the line accelleration than a 200R4 would with a smaller gear. Lets do some math; 700R4 3.06 X 3.08 = 9.4248 1st gear multiplication ratio, 0.70 X 3.08 = 2.156 final drive ratio. 200R4 2.74 X 3.08 =8.4392 1st gear multiplication ratio, 0.67 X 3.08 = 2.0636 final drive ratio. As you can see the 700 wins the 1st gear accelleration,but isn't as good of an overdrive ratio. But the engine will have to work harder when it goes into O/D under 55 MPH,and this is a heavy car. If we use the 9.5 first gear multiplication rule,then the 700 will win both 1st gear,and overdrive,lets look at the math; 700R4 3.06 X 3.08 = 9.4248 1st gear multiplication ratio, 0.70 X 3.08 = 2.156 final drive ratio 200R4 2.74 X 3.42 = 9.3708 first gear multiplication, 0.67 X 3.42 = 2.2914 final drive ratio. Oh look, the math is telling us that the 700 is a better all around trans,for performance and economy,because the 200 needs a bigger gear ratio to get just under the 700's 1st gear multipliction ratio,and that pushes the 200's final drive ratio over what the 700's is. And a BIG PLUS is that the gear in the car is probably a 2.73-3.23,which all would be fine for the 700R4,so a gear change is not needed. And in the first post he was looking for PERFORMANCE,and MILEAGE,so I would think the 700 fits that bill better. :Smarty: ---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ---------- The trans needs to be repaired,or replaced anyway,so making the decision to upgrade now makes it more worth while,and affordable,because its not like taking a perfectly working transmission out of the car,and swaping in an O/D. And the gas savings(not to mention the benefit of less RPM on the freeway to help the engine last longer) by doing so now when a trans is needed,makes the upgade cheeper,by subtracting the cost of having the 400 rebuilt. So that "huge amount of money" is around 50% more than a rebuild would be,which if the car is driven a lot in the summer with summer fuel prices,will pay for itself very quickly. So lets do some more math; Say,he gets an average of 6 more miles per gallon,from 16 to 22,on a 20 gallon tank,with gas prices at $4.00 per gallon; $4.00 X 20 = $80 per tank 16mpg X 20gallons = 320 miles per tank, $80 / 320 = .25c per gallon 22mpg X 20gallons = 440 mpt, $80 / 440 = .1818c per gallon if you travel 3,000 miles in the summer; No O/D 3,000 X .25c = $750 With O/D 3,000 X .1818 = $545.40 $750 - 545.40 = $204.60 in savings the first season driving your car,and the more miles you drive it the faster the O/D will pay for itself.(about half way there by just driving 3,000 miles,not to mention the wear and tear your engine avoided by 30% less rotations it had to make to drive the same mph in O/D) And actually the 6 more mpg was a conservative number,50% that I mentioned in my previous post of 16 would be more like 24mpg,which would be .1666c per mile = $500 per 3,000 miles,and can be $250 dollar savings. So yes,I think it would totally be worth it. Math is fun! :Smarty:
the 200 has less spread between the gears and better overdrive but doesnt have the steeper 1st like mentioned. the reason is the 700 was truck trans and had deeper 1st for the needed pulling power from a dead stop.
Which would work great for a heavy 1964 LeSabre Wagon,and be able to save some $$ by not having to change the rear gear,like my 65 Impala below.
Fatman - I feel your pain. The first time i took my Corvair out for a ride it threw the belt, overheated and blew a tire and dropped a muffler all about the same time (ok, it had been sitting for 20 years) And then it dropped a valve seat because it overheated. I would have burned it right then and there if I had a match. 2 years later it was all fixed up beautiful, and I drove it for about 5 years trouble free. All the hell I went through seemed like it never happened. Then I sold it to a guy in Jersey who used it for a submarine in Hurricane Sandy. Bummer, it was a beautiful car.
Thanks for the advise, I would like to keep the 401 if at all possible, cool lookin old engine for one and then there is the nostalgia thing....... see SBC in everything, Nailhead not so much. Looking at the performance specs the 401 will FAR outperform the chevy.............. Mileage??? if I can get 17 or 18 highway at 70 miles per hour I will be thrilled, already sent the trans out to be built, my mechanic is going to beef it up a bit so the shifts will be a bit more firm, plus run an aftermarket cooler so should be fine after I get it back in....... checked compression and sure enough.... one cylinder bad so hoping just the head gasket but will know later this week when we get the heads off....... so......wish me luck .........and keep your eyes out for a head if I need it.....Thanks, Fatmanray:
Did you do a wet compression test on the bad cylinder? If not,this will tell you if it is the head,or the rings that is losing compression. I wish you the best of luck with your vehicle, I feel your pain,things often don't go very well for myself either. Derek
Thanks, Derek, did not think of that, will try it this evening........... its all a labor of devotion, I do not like new cars and I consider most made after 1966 to be be new cars.........
