12.75 1/4 mile 350

After a telephone conversation with Tom Telesco (our resident Nailhead guru) I am being encouraged to stick with a 350 in my project "Jessica Rabbit". I was asking him if he had any 455's lying around he'd be willing to part with in the near future. He says " sure I do but why don't you stick with the 350, it's a better lighter engine." After some more small talk, what he is saying starts making some sense. So here is my question to you folks who love the SBB.
I want to build a 350 here are my must haves.
Must be Naturally Aspirated. No power adders.
Must run stock heads. They can be ported
Must run exhaust manifolds
Alum. Intake is ok, but a stock 4 bbl is preferred
Must not idle like a dragster, lopey is good.
Will be running a 4 speed and 3.73 gears
Must run 12.75ish (I am assuming 450-500 hp will get the job done)
There are your peramiters. Build this motor with parts that are available NOW. (no tracking down 30 year old KB stuff). If you can include vendors and price in your "build sheet" that would be awesome. So who's up for the challenge?

 

Must have stock heads. :laugh: That is the only option, and they will need to be ported to the max.

 

Hello,

To meet these goals I would use:

-Cold air induction to the air filter
-77-80 350 model 800 Q jet from Everyday Performance: http://www.everyday-performance.com/
-Stock intake ported, 1./5" 4 hole spacer
-Gessler ported head with oversized valves
-Gessler ported exhaust manifolds
-Dual 2.5" exhaust with X pipe
-10.5:1 compression
-Custom TA roller cam
-MSD kit in a HEI re-curved for 32-34 degrees total timing all in by 2200 RPM

It is about $1500 for the Ross racing pistons and Eagle rods, however this combo is proven in the 12s NA for hundreds of runs with a 350 cube Buick 350. All you have to do is call Brian and ask for this combo, he can have a set of rods and pistons put together for you easily as the work is done asnd the combo is proven:
Engine builder Brian Leibee used an off the shelf Eagle rod at 6.300" long and had Ross make custom pistons for the application, after slight machining this combo has been track proven reliable and the cheepest option so far for forged piston and rods combo:

The rod used for the Buick 350 is the CRS6300SLW

http://sdparts.com/details/eagle-specialty-products/crs6300slw?page=1

Just spoke to Troys Engine builder Brian Leibee and he said that it would be no problem to do another setup like this for someone. The rods are VERY slightly narrowed, bearing tang moved and stock buick 350 bearings are used, the piston is custom made anyways so no problem to go with the SBC pin diameter. The piston builder Ross Racing Pistons job card number 115793. Should help speed the process of ordering. Pistons are a true flat top with 4 cc valve reliefs. Phone# 307-362-5049.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=casper

Or if you are happy with low 13s then go with my low buck version of the sleeper 350 build:

Find a 70 350 that is 10:1,
-rebuild it with a re-ring kit and only grind the crank if needed.
-use 73-80 rods with stock bolts (good to about 500 HP)
-stock rebuilt 70 350 Q jet rebuilt at home
-home port the stock 4bb intkake
-enlarge the exhaust manifolds with a grinder as far as you can reach
-have your local shop port and polish the heads with stock valves and new valve job
-TA 284 cam
-stock points dist. recurved for 32-34 degrees of total timing all in by 2200 RPM with Petronix points eliminator kit

 

I'm going to add to Sean's post above

You asked for a lopey cam but not rough like a dragster.
This limits the overlap spec to not more than 10 degrees, so what you are looking at is a high lift cam with medium duration.
A roller cam with around 230 duration on the intake and 240 on the exhaust with .550 lift on a 113 LSA should get the job done.
You need the roller cam because of the steep ramp rate with the higher lift and roller rockers to handle the lift and spring pressure.


To match this cam you need a Gessler level 3 port job and because the lift is relatively high
you should include hardened valve seats on the exhaust.

Add this to Sean's list and you will have one of the finest running stock looking 350s around.

Paul

 

WOW!!!
You guys are like UPS. You really delivered here. I think Sean's second build is very doable (love the first one, but I'd like to not have to totally rebuild one-yet). I like the idea of the roller cam. Larry your new engine running sounds (hows the best way to put it?) mediumly stout. At first glance/listen (from the video posted) it sound healthy but not like its got a Window Rattler or 308 cam in it- Know what I mean? If I compare it to Jasons Black car yours sound mild. So my point is that cam in the 350 would be HEALTHY but not wild. That being said, I have a good machinist who likes to play with heads. He could port match the heads and intake. Clean up the heads with a real decent porting/polishing job. I can do the manifolds. I like the 800 Qjet from everyday-performance (although I didnt see it advertised on the page-guess you have to call them for it?). That just leaves. . .
1. Roller rockers (I am assuming T/A)?
2. Will stock springs work on the heads or will different springs be needed for that cam?
3. Larger Valves can be done by the machinist. I would just need to give him some part #s when the time comes.
4. Vendor for the Roller cam/lifters.
This is sounding very doable and I belive it can be done under 5K with some room to spare.
Thank you guys, keep it coming. We might have a 350 build going this winter!

 

If you e-mail Ken he can either find you a core carb to build or you can find one on here (parts wanted add), and then he can built it to your engine specs. He builds great custom carbs!

On the port matching there are two ways at looking at it:

A. This is my thinking. If the heads and intake are port matched it decreases the restriction in the intake ports and more power is possible especially in the high RPM. I like to raise the roof of the intake ports even higher than the gasket, if done right this really adds to the flow of the intake and heads.

B. The other way of thinking is that port matching reduces the low RPM port velocity and this causes a loss in low RPM torque. Although I think this is true to a point I still port match.

1. The TA rollers are great, a little expensive but you get a reliable setup that reduces friction and gives you a 1.6 ratio if you want that. the stock setup is not the best really.

2. You will want a better spring to match the cam. I never re-use the stock springs as they are barely adequate when new on a stock engine, let alone 30+ years later.

3. TA sells the larger valves but if you call Finishline Performance they can tell you more about what they used for even larger valves in thier 8:1 350 that made 420 HP NA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zktYYQhCtqU

4. Like they said TA for the camshaft kit. PM pmuller9 (Paul) and he can help you design a custom profile and just have TA get it ground for you.

 

I have a ported TA intake and a Comp Cams that went 12's in my 350. If you are interested PM me.

 

My first question to you would be how much does the car weight?

 

Tony

In order for this project to work you need heads that flow at least 260 on the intake and 190 on the exhaust
and the more the better without increasing the port volume a lot so the port velocity stays high.
The most critical area is the radius in the bowl around the valve guides and how the bowl area blends into the throat.
On this Gessler head the valve guide bosses where removed where a tear drop contour is usually done on the 455 heads.



For the higher lift cam, it is recommended to install hard exhaust valve seats.
The port roof get raised and some attention also to the sides
but no material is to be removed from the floor except for clean up.
If more flow is needed, then pushrod tube liners are installed so the port walls can be modified even further.
There is a lot more details like the short turn radius, valve undercutting and the multi angle valve job itself
that also determine the valve stem height that must be the same across the top.
Also include valve guide liner installation.
If you can trust to get this done correctly at a local shop where they can also check the work on a flow bench then fine. Otherwise make the 120 mile trip (Or ship) to Gessler.

Notice the hump removed in the combustion chamber and the chamber clean-up. After this is completed the chamber volume will be increased.
This project really needs a 10.5:1 compression ratio with pistons that are notched to clear the larger valves with the increased overlap and higher lift.
To do this right the bottom end needs to be redone with a custom pistons that can give you 10.5:1 compression and valve to piston clearance.

You are at a disadvantage with choosing not to use a tube header and everything else must be right to compensate.
The tube header give you the scavenging effect needed to evacuate the exhaust and start cylinder fill early during the overlap period and is worth a lot.
I was talking with Greg Gessler this morning and he said that the 350 exhaust manifolds are not too good even with porting.
He also said that the valve lift can be a little less than .550" as there is not much gain in flow past the lower .500 lift range.

Paul

 

Paul is right on with the advice about head porting and also the manifolds. I would use the headers, they will add a few ponies! I am working on getting my protype shorty headers done for the SBB, not suer when they will be available but they will be great adding ground clearance over the long tubes and still more performance over the manifolds.

On the topic of heads use the 68-70 versions as they flow better with or without porting. If you use a 73-80 block you can use any year heads. if you use a 68-72 block you are limited to using the 68-72 heads anyways, so just keep that in mind.

350 head project with flow #'s!
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=120529&highlight=heads

head year differences
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=122404&highlight=heads

Head swapping
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=57460&highlight=350+heads

Head porting thread:http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=120529&highlight=heads




< Click thumbnails :Comp:


These are the parts I use ina re-curved HEI dist.

MSDCap and Rotor Kit For GM V8 HEI
121-8416

HEI Low Resistance Bushing
121-8412

Extreme HEI Coil Dust Cover
With Wire Retainers
External Mounted Coil
121-84011

Digital-6 Plus Ignition
121-6520

Blaster HVC Coil
121-8252

 

Sounds like an awful lot of high dollar parts and effort just to go high 12s. A big block with very little effort and a lot less money.

 

What fun would that be.. He could just put an LS in it..:bla:

 

I guess that just depends on what is important to him. Going fast on a reasonable budget or just wants the challenge or to prove a point.

 

I will get in touch.

I have yet to move the vehicle under its own power yet, so I have not had it weighed. I will assume in 37-3900 lbs range.

---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 AM ----------

Sean & Paul- I can't go with headers due to the rules of the class I wish to race in. I am really interested in running in FAST type races and headers are a big no-no.
All of the info on the porting you guys provided is sinking in slowly. I think my best route is to have Greg bang out a set of heads.
So anybody have a good running '70 350 they want to get out of their garage?

 

tony,
if you find a real good block.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/283-CHEVY-F...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

 

You need to get the rule book for FAST type racing and review it as to what you are allowed to do with the engine. If I remember correctly FAST type racing is stock appearing cars... ie intake, exhaust, tires. Check out the rules as to what you cannot do with the engine. Good Luck!

 

I'm just picking on you.. I'm building basically the same motor he's building RIGHT now. Hope to get it in by winter..

 

Tony

Start looking for 2 sets of heads. The reason I say that is because both Greg Gessler and Mike from TA Performance will tell you stories about customers that sent a single pair of heads just to find that one of the heads wasn't usable.
You would get upset if you made the trip or shipped a set just to get a phone call saying they needed another head.

If you supply 2 sets then Greg has the option of using the best 2 of the 4 heads. There are issues with core shift, cracks, seat recession and so on.
Load up 2 sets and make the trip. Cheaper and faster than shipping.

After the heads are done then you will have the finished chamber volume number which you will use to determine the piston head volume, piston compression height and the block deck height in order to get the right compression ratio.

My problem is the lack of Cannolis here in Spokane. Haven't had one since I left NY many years ago.

Paul