Mr. Cook...You just bustin' chops again? You've asked this question before. I've answered it before. I've had some rough cars, and they didn't have tag issues, but I guess some of you have cars with corrosion issues in this area. Rule #1 Avoid removal like the Covid if you can Rule #2 Avoid removal if it is at all possible Rule #3 Don't remove it unless it is absolutely necessary I like what some of the others have said already. Duct tape it off. Find a work around. But if you can't I like how some have already answered. It's not a re-body, so that's not an issue - the tag is going right back on the born with shell. Consider state law. Consider involving the authorities. Consider documenting the process before, during, and after. Certainly reattach with the correct hardware. Those would have been my answers before. Now we've learned a thing or two and done a little more figurin'. If you can't find any other numbers on the car you may have a real problem. How many of us have had a drill bit walk? How many of us have had the metal we're drilling twist or spin unexpectedly? Oh boy. Now you've gotz problems. You told me to "breath" when I saw the unattached GSX tags. You were poking me, but look carefully...I was aghast because the VIN tag appears to be visibly damaged to the point it would be noticeable even with new rosette rivets. If that X is the non numbers engine and trans, and you can't locate a second VIN on the shell or frame - now you've got the potential for some real issues, because it has become obvious the tags were off the car. See my point? Or you could do like my buddy did. He removed tags from a 1969 Chevelle SS396 convertible and proceeded to lose them. It's risky amigo, for a lot of reasons...
I would bet a cold beer if I called the local PD and told them to come over so I could remove a vin tag and have them somehow document it, they would hang the phone up....
It didn't have rivets originally, it had Phillips-head screws. Kinda mind-blowing that removable screws are fine, but replace them with 'permanent' rivets and you have an issue.
International Harvester Company. I'm restoring a 64 Scout. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester
Actually I would be too scared to call. They might find out I also ripped the tag off my mattress when they are over. Lock me up and throw away the key!
Taking into account the last two replies and the ones quoted here, I can only surmise that some of you consider VIN tags to be your property to do whatever you want with because you live in the USA, land of the free, and it is your God given right to drill and move VIN tags to your hearts desire. People are relating genuine information here (Chevelle story) and you offer up authority as either uncaring, or as one reply suggested, willing to be "on the take". Shameful at best. No wonder I find myself struggling to gain any traction on this site. Whenever I go into other forums regarding this issue there is what seems to be an overwhelming majority of people that respect the law, and openly counter those that flaunt opinion that can be detrimental to individuals and the hobby as a whole.
Keep in mind that the law was specifically enacted to prevent classic cars from getting restored. It really has nothing to do with car theft
So it appears to be an issue if the frame numbers don't match the vin? People swap frames all the time, even under our GS's. So if you don't have the original frame and engine you could be in a bit of trouble? Here is one for discussion I had a customer bring me pieces from 5 Fords 1928-1935. We then bought a brand new custom frame with a serial number not vin. We put a Ford 300 inline 6 from a mid 2000s van in with od trans from the van. When done local DMV added a few numbers and 1 letter to the serial number. That became the vin and it was registered.
I understand that. Restoration fine - nobody, but nobody, has a problem with restoration. Fraud, not so good, and removing VIN's from their original location can be viewed that way depending on the circumstance.
Non of the parts that came to me had ID numbers of any kind, accept the new frame. What vehicle was rebuilt as technically 7 vehicles were used
Brian you have to realize what happens in the real world. Walk into a collision shop that works on new cars. Its nothing for these guys to replace a firewall or even a complete front half from a donor.. rolled trucks get junkyard cabs all the time. Many cars get hit in the A pillar and get replacement parts. Hell there ain't a Tacoma in the northeast thats rolling on its original frame.. these are long standing practices.. You can buy the cowl section for the A body cars where the trim tag goes, and I bet 1000s of them have been sold.. I often wonder how many of these high dollar muscle cars have been smashed when nearly new and grafted back together. Given the demographic of the buyers and their intended purpose I'd say a whole lot of them. With any good collision work you would have a hard time knowing the truth. There was no car fax then.. Factor in the number of cars that are dipped or soda blasted. Vins are removed all the time. Its not a crime.
In Ohio, starting in 1993, after a car that was totaled or stolen and stripped was rebuilt, the highway patrol would inspect them and if you had receipts for every part , new or used, they would issue a salvage title for that vehicle. If we installed a used front or rear half, we had to have a receipt from the wrecking yard with the vin of the front or rear clip. They supposedly checked the replacement parts vin to see if it was stolen or wrecked. If you are replacing a firewall due to an accident, you can be pretty sure that the truck was totaled. By the highway patrol issuing a salvage title, it lets future owners know that the car was rebuilt, either from a wreck or theft.
All you experts crack me up........ Explain this. The frame where the VIN was had been ground welded and ground again. WHY? If that was a VIN that could be ran this whole thing might not have happened. But with the OBVIOUSLY wrong rivits in the plate, a ground frame, and NO OTHER numbers to collaborate the title VIN what should the law do? IF the VIN was on the frame so they could run a number the law would have more than likely sent this car on its way with the paperwork to title it. But since it didnt and it looks suspicious the LAW states it has to be impounded. Its of my opinion to put a builder vin on it and send it away. Everyone wins. Guy gets car, state collects taxes.
That's not how it went back in the day what-so-ever! I had a good friend whose brothers totaled 13 Roadrunners between them. They'd just go buy another one for less than $1,500.00 (usually 500 to 800) all day long. There may have been an exception but everyone I knew just went and bought another musclecar dirt cheap if theirs was wrecked anywhere beyond a fender bender. A wise man once said in a post recently: "As time marches on the definition of too far gone gets looser and looser." If the car was new enough it would have been insured and totaled. A rebuilt title would then be issued if someone grafted it back together later. That was the real world...and with that I'm going to take another break from this thread. Nobody panic
Brian I'm talking back when these cars were new. You can't expect me to believe cars were either in fender benders or were totalled with nothing inbetween....
No doubt the guy that is/ was till the car was in authorities hands is the one getting the short end of the stick. Now me going into a situation of a car that is highly desirable that I’m going to spend some big coin on, I’m going to do my research prior. In this case it seems to be clear the car has to much gray areas. I understand some people don’t have the knowledge or the ability to verify every Nook and cranny before purchasing. But this guy may have saved himself what ever a corvette of that year and caliber is and legally fees is adding up to of wasted time and money. What I would like to know is what Repercussions the previous owner or seller of there was a string of this car moving hand to hand they are guilty of. I would hope the current owner with the help of authorities having prove the car is not legal, they would help Pursue the person that put the car together in what there terms are “illegally” and see how it slipped through the cracks on the previous state it came from. It would help if all the states had the same laws then. It’s probably to much work as some have already stated. I do agree with Brian that this proves some parts of the car it’s just better to not touch. I don’t like rebodies, falsified cars, or crooks.
The police aren’t going to catch every car that might be fraudulent. They’ll miss some. And they often won’t question things that don’t look fraudulent but could be (like swapped cabs on trucks, hot rods built from multiple vehicles). This car is different. In this one case, as Mike says, one very important part looked screwy. Like stolen car screwy. When the cops looked further it got a lot worse. Like hiding a stolen car worse. (Frame not matching but not stolen might have been ok. VIN deliberately removed from its legal spot on the frame?! Flag!) On a high dollar collector car prone to theft and fraud, that’s a bad thing. Literally the first two steps on the ‘is this a stolen car?’ flowchart were checked ‘yes’. The fact that no one could be found who could explain where, when and WHY those screwy things happened is why it’s in limbo now. Sucks for the owner, but it sounds like he didn’t do a proper inspection before he bought it. Patrick
Man, I sure am glad in my Mustang that the vin number is riveted to the dash, which can be removed in 15 minutes and swapped into another car in 30 . Sorry if this gives anybody a coronary but I've removed and reinstalled the VIN at least 6 times in 30 years, and it's a unibody so I don't have to worry about frame stamped VINs... that way I don't have to get involved in these debates....
Oh, and backup VIN on the body is a sticker. We made this one 20 years ago because nobody was reproducing them...damn my door jam is shiny!
