Any you fellas running an iron 500 to 535in setup?? Curious as to if its worth the extra 3k for the crank to get the extra cubes for a stock appearing street bruiser? Over say a 482 Would the extra cubes work with or against the manifolds? Obviously one would keep the cam profiled for emphasis on an absolutely useless and absurd tq curve,..maybe limit to rpm to 6200 to keep the block alive I think with 500in nice SE heads the rite cam and with manifolds 600~650hp and close to 700ftlbs is possible whatcha think?? Obviously the manifolds and Gardner exhaust would stifle it up quite a bit but hell it's gotta make 600hp,..imagine 600ftlbs and 600hp on G60 polyglas with a BB transmission be passing people at a 45° angle ha drive to the track run low 11s at 125mph with a 2.0 60ft hells yea I sold all my Tomahawk stuff several months ago so I'm brainstorming again,...ha Cheap way there,..4.15 stroke stock "494" crank with a 4.35bore =494in or a 498 with a 4.38bore More expensiver way,.. 4.25 stroke 4.35bore =505 Most biggest without getting thin on cyl wall thickness 4.4 stroke with 4.35bore 523ci Or the balls out formula 4.4stroke 4.4bore =535 Will a 4.5 crank fit??
I can't speak for a comparison between 525's and 500's in a street motor, race yes and its worth it. But between a 482 and 494 its minimal. That the reason we do 482's now and it gives .100" more meat on the rod pin. That HP level is easy in a street 482. We just did 3 with hyd, rollers and the dyno results were on 2 of them 625 and 631hp, 605 lb-ft.. Both had SE heads one a stage1 and one a stage2. Everything else was identical.
Yes... your building torque in that type of stock appearing combination, and the bigger air-pump simply makes more torque, before the manifolds become the airflow limitation. I would opt for the 4.350 bore/ 4.400 stroke option. BMD engineering did a 525" engine study program in the early 70's.. it was very successful, and had we not had the gas shortages/price increases around '73, I believe that we would have seen 525ci engines available in the big cars for the 74 and up model years. Instead, we got a 2V 455 option... Next time you see Dennis Manner, ask him about driving the 72 Electra test car with the 525 back home to the iron range of MN for Christmas ... JW
Sure. 482" stroker, girdle,10.6 compression for pump gas,Oliver 6.8" rods, Diamond pistons,TA Al. SE heads, 330cfm, TA 1.65 roller rockers, TA front cover, with booster plate,6qt oil pan, SP1 intake, 1050 Holley carb, BHJ balancer , SFI flexplate, MSD distributor, advance in by 2500 rpm, hyd roller cam, 236/252, 113 LC, .620" lift. Same combo on 3 motors except 1 had stage2 SE's, same 330 cfm. made 6-8hp more. A different cam grind may have made a little more
http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?th...st-iron-block-from-kenny-betts-racing.338429/ I'm thinking you'd be better off to wait for one of these, but that could be a long wait. 50 extra cubes is 10% or so over the 482"(estimate, I'm sure someone will come with exact numbers) so I'm guessing you could estimate 10% more power. Not sure that translates as the heads flow might stifle it, or not depending on them. Lots of variables. I'm leaning at the 470" but will probably just stay at 464" as then I can poke a stock rod through the block in an effort to be cheap and in reality be more expensive than if I just opened the checkbook and bought the Molnar rods and fancy autotec pistons and it stay together(and get some cubes in the mean time). Good discussion. The real dream is the kbr block, a nifty hair drier and a stand alone to do the injection and 4l80e. Bullet proof nine sec car I could so drag week, power tour and drive to the local track. And look pretty stock until you open the hood.
Yea one of the KB irons would be nice,..but that project has kinda stalled it appears,..and after selling all my Tomahawk stuff,..I can't see myself turning around and buying what I've already had,..I'm not looking to make enough power to blow a stock block I'm after low rpm TQ,..real TQ like over 600ftlbs and average of 500+ for the majority of the range. Ordered a pair of Stage 1 SE's about an hour ago,...gonna start working on a stroker crank next
When I was last at finishline bobb was talking about the ability to use a mopar crank, somehow to fit our blocks. I'm sure it takes some tickling, but at under 800 to start with for a 4.250 stroke, it might be a cheaper, faster result, than ordering one to direct fit our blocks
I think the hardest part would be the actual rear flange, but for those that know how to do that stuff it might not be that bad
It would need some main bearing spacers also, 2.75 main vs the buick 3.25. Dont know much about that kinda stuff but dont think you could weld that much up idk. The real attraction other than price is it can be on your doorstep the next day 4.75 bore spacing vs 4.80
It sounded like it would take some work from what he was talking about, but even with the machine work it would be faster than ordering one and cheaper I would bet
I bet if the work was all figured out, if someone would run 10 or so them to help reduce all the setup times doing 10 of them 1 at time.........they could be done a reasonablish price per unit and they would move fairly fast I bet
I know they would,..bearing spacers run around $200 for a Chebby, if if there was $1000 worth of machine/work to do you would still come in under the $2700 for a Crower,..and it would be ready to drop in a couple weeks or so. Vs 10 weeks plus,..more often than not its longer We desperately need a budget forged crank option,...stock cranks are super tough but special machine work to just get a 482 is kinda bummer
TA already uses a MOPAR forgings for their Tomahawk forged cranks they offer but the largest mains they can get out of the raw forging is 3.00". 3.00" would be the way to go with spacers for the block and new caps so they'll hold the block spacers in. I wouldn't recommend trying to alter an already machined to fit a MOPAR block crank to fit in a Buick block. Bore spacing is close, 4.80" vs 4.75" for the BBB but not really close enough to shrink the crank after machining a raw forging for a MOPAR block though. From the center out making #3 main being the zero numbers 2 and 4 would be half the difference of the bore spacing then numbers 1 and 5 would be the half of the difference of the bore spacing plus the whole difference of the bore spacing. Basically from the center out would be .025" for mains 2 and 4 and .075" out further from the center for mains 1 and 5 is what would be started with using an already machined to fit a MOPAR block crank. Would be a lot of grinding and welding to get this done vs starting with a raw forging like what TA has done.
What we need more than anything is a crank that doesn't cost 2800+ and is available when you want it,...sure billet heads,...and 5in bore space billet blocks are cool and all,....but we need cranks!!!! Ha,...or even yet dare I say it a an actual stroker kit like every other manufacturer out there
If the average Joe could put together a 505 or 523 for $1200 more than a 470 or 482 WHY WOULDN'T THEY,...I know for a race application where rpm is king the cubes dont matter as much,..to certain point but for street bound cars especially our 3800+lb jobs we need cubes And I get the thought process of "if we have more cubes we'll have more power and then we'll need girdles or a Tomahawk" but there are alot more guys out sliding their car around on street tires then making 1/4miles passes so 700hp without hooking and only stretching them out for a few or even a couple seconds at a time isn't an issue
I would had done a 482 this time if I wouldnt had already been sitting on my molnar rods for the 464 for more than 18 months b4 pulled the parts from that build to fix this current one. I got a killer deal on my molnar, little over 400 bucks from rpm labs b4 they went belly up, and I had then long enough I couldn't exchange them out to the more modern build up 482. I dont think the 18 cubes would make or break my power level, but for the dimes it would had been why not. But the 60-65 cubes the 523/8 would have to really start to add up. I know this bordering on some ricer math here, but 700 hp 464 is about 1.5ish hp per cube.......at same levels a 528 is just a few short of 800........ almost 15% more......you would notice that. The same extrapolation is about 25ish hp for the 482..........that would show up in the et slip as well....... but not the same level. I the idea of 523/8 kit that didnt cost an arm, leg, and left testicle.......and could be at the shop in a week or so, not maybe 6 months or longer would be nice. Lord knows if the kbr iron block comes through the idea of 572 buick motor sounds sweet, but 4500 plus for the block, 3000 for the arm, 1000 for the pistons, pins, and rings, 750-1000 for rods, it's still 10,000 plus for a bottom end........thats not in the realm of most ppl to drive on the road or to go race..........I can't justify a 10,000 dollar bottom end to go bracket racing.
