I recorded this on my video camera. I would not beat on this too much it did a nice job. This is starting to sound like the 300 build up. The numbers on the cam are the advertised numbers and not at the .050 number. The 286-304 are advertised cam numbers and they are high. The 510 cam I used is 305-315 dur. On the dyno graph at 5200 rpm where the torque and the hp cross the hp is still climbing up. It looks like it levels off at 5700 then jump at 6 grand. The torque came on quick. The one shot I could see the engine looked to be close to 6 grand on the 3rd dyno run. I would bet with more head porting the engine would run up to 6400. The head porting must not have been much past stock. I thought the fact that they had the compression up to 10 they would have gotten past 300 hp. The stock rockers ar at 1.55 so some TA 1.65 rollers would help some. The engine sounded real good on the dyno and went past 5500. A little shot of nitrous would have that engine rocken, and stay together.
I enjoyed the show and thought it would make more power. I know the cost of parts can add up and this was a budget build if I recall. Somebody said to donate it to charity but what about building a motor for somebody that wants it. You could go to the vendor and work a deal for their cost plus 10%. The vendor gets exposure and the machine shop offers a discount rate. You build the engine for your show and the guy that gets the engine saves on the cost of building an engine. We get a show and a motor that makes some power that we want to see on TV. I believe the Blue Collar Buick was sold real cheap (COST) to a Fastner company that donated there product for the build so it can be done. With that being said lets get that TA aluminum 455 block build going as I am sure somebody on the board will sponsor it!
Stacey David built up a wrangler for a guy and his kid. Shadetree Mechanics only worked on their friends and family members cars. Plus you have the Overhaulin crew. It's always cool to see a build for a specific person because you get some insight into why they chose to use certain parts or go in a specific direction.
Exactly Guy. Well just think, with 3,760 some hits on this thread, a lot of aluminum heads & S/P intakes might get sold! :idea2:
Well lets really see... How many people from the Buick world, I mean all from the 455 crowd to the Turbo crowd to the wish we had it 350 crowd would be willing to give TA a $100.00 a peice to help them build 350 heads for the 350 Buick so the last of the Buick crowd finally has the credit it needs to get in with the bad boy engines of the Buick family. Hey Marty have not heard from you in a while, you see I am still rambling BS on here. Hey, got to keep those minds going create some controversy LOL. Been able to go any farther with your engine? We need help from our Buick brothers to get our 350 on the map. I thought you guys hated Chevies.
I would love to see TA build a set of heads and a single plane intake for the Buick 350 but the fact is they would NEVER EVER !!! get the investment back out of building the heads. To be honest someone would complain about the power numbers just like they complain about the current intake TA offers and that would prevent people from buying it. There just are not enough people interested in building a Buick 350 to justify aftermarket high dollar parts. There is a reason you can get everything for a SBC... everybody and there brother knows someone running a SBC. How many people are building a SBB a handful at best. I love the Buick 350 but facts are facts and Business is Business. Fox's Den I don't think your going to see a lot of people drop $100 real quick unless you can get TA to step up and say for 100% sure that if they raise $***** dollar amount they will build the heads. Only time will tell :TU: I don't mean to be neg so please don't think I am bashing here I am just stating my opinion. that and a $1 might get you a cup of coffee :beer
TA's money would be better spent developing a conversion package for the Rover heads on the 350, rather than spending another $100,000 on another completely different design. I'm sure development money for making headers, cam blanks, a dual plane, and a single plane intake would amount to much less than the cost to develop another head. There are a lot more ACTIVE hotrodders in the Rover market (remember, worldwide here) than there are in the 350 market.
For those who don't know what are the advantages hp, tq, cc, and such to having a rover head on a 350?
Excerpt from the TA catalog: "TA Performance is introducing our new Buick 215 / Rover V8 aluminum cylinder heads. Based upon our V6 cylinder head, these heads are a great improvement over the factory and other aftermarket Rover cylinder heads. These heads are nearly identical to our V6 heads with the exception of an added cylinder. The overall design remains the same. The major area of improvement in the performance of these heads is the larger intake ports. Being that it is based off of our V6 heads, the intake ports are essentially the same. With porting, preliminary tests yielded 270+ cfm on the intake and 180 cfm on the exhaust ports. In addition, the valve angle has been adjusted to 13 to put the valves on the center line of the bore which allows for the use of larger valves, up to 2.02” intake and 1.60” exhaust. The exhaust ports have also been raised to help improve performance. The Rover heads also feature a 1.850”-1.900” valve spring install height which allows for the use of higher lift cams. Another feature that was incorporated during the design is the new combustion chamber shape. Factory 215/Rover heads feature a D shaped combustion chamber. The new TA 215/Rover head features a Heart shaped combustion chamber found on all high performance cylinder heads, including our V6 and big block heads. This results in better combustion, due to the decrease in the possibility of detonation, which increases performance. The chamber and deck thickness was also increased to at least 5/8” or thicker. This makes the heads stronger so they can handle more power without flexing and cracking, a potential problem on high horsepower or forced induction engines. The valve cover rail has also been raised to make way for additional material which gives you the ability to raise the intake ports to make it a tall port head. Accessory bolt hole patterns for both the Buick 215 and 14 bolt Rover heads have also been incorporated so that the heads fit the Buick 215, early 14 bolt Rover blocks and the later 10 bolt Rover blocks. TA 2150 PRICING Assembled $2795.00 Bare Castings $1500.00 Out of the box they flow 225 intake 140 exhaust (give or take) Ported (with the small Rover intake port) 270 intake 190 exhaust (give or take)" That's the response I got from Mike Jr.
If those are the real rover head specs, I'm pretty dang sure we can get better than 225cfm for less than $2800!!!!! No weight savings is worth that.
That's what I was getting at...$$$ When you have to depend on one person for a ride they can charge you what ever they want. In this case id just send mine off to be ported http://www.gesslerheadporting.com/g...2bd966a9262c4d4985256dd80027774a!OpenDocument
Acording to a thread about 350 flow numbers, Sean posted that the stock UNPORTED 350 heads max out at 199in/149ex : "Just for an example....Here are some flow numbers for both a stock and ported (350)head": Stock Flow, stock valve... intake .050 - 27 .100 - 55 .200 - 112 .300 - 165 .400 - 199 .500 - 196 .600 - 199 exhaust .050 - 22 .100 - 44 .200 - 87 .300 - 119 .400 - 137 .500 - 146 .600 - 149 Ported, 1.92/1.55 valves Intake .050 - 32 .100 - 60 .200 - 116 .300 - 172 .400 - 215 .500 - 247 .600 - 262 exhaust .050 - 27 .100 - 53 .200 - 102 .300 - 145 .400 - 175 .500 - 177 .600 - 182 The rover heads out of the box flow 225in/140ex Which is a good increase, at least on the intake side, over stock. Here's a post Mike Jr. made about the heads a while back; "We've flowed one of the prototype heads on our bench, out of the box numbers with a valve job were about 250 cfm @.500 and with very mild port work (just a little working of the bowl, not a lot) and widening the port by an 1/8th of an inch or so resulted with numbers in the 270+ cfm range @.500 (ed: WITH A ROVER SIZED BORE!!). There is MUCH more porting we can do to the port, they're still tiny and full of material! We haven't even opened them up to the size of a V6 port yet" I was on the phone with Mike Sr. a while ago... He said that during the tests he used a 3.7" bore, valves were 1.94" intake/1.60" exhaust with 11/32" stem and no undercut (said undercut valves actually hurt flow #'s during the tests). Said valves could go bigger with a larger bore. These are great flow#'s for the bore and the ports used. Imagine a 3.830 bore, and the easily ported aluminum heads opened to 350 port sizes! Not only that, but with modern efficient combustion chambers, less timing will need to be used, less chance of detonation, more room for higher compression and boost. Remember, these heads are ALUMINUM so in addition to more flow out of the box over a stock head, you're essentially adding hp by removing a ton of weight (making your car faster and handle better). Then there's the fact that aluminum is a helluva lot easier to hog out than cast iron, meaning it'd prolly be a lot cheaper to have a set of these ported to the max over a set of factory 350 pieces. This is the closest the 350 crowd is ever going to get, short of a millionaire funding his own head project. Jump on or miss the bus. As soon as I move some parts I know I'll be ordering a set
Over a stock pair of iron heads... 25+ cfm out of the box, probably 60lbs lighter, more efficient combustion chambers, and a lot more potential. How much did you pay for your fiberglass body panels and bumpers? How much weight did the FIBERGLASS (not the rest of your weight cutting measures) net you? How much additional Horsepower did they add? How much potential for additional HP to they hold?
250 lbs for $1200, most of it off the nose. They don't add any hp, or hold any hp, very funny. My point is I can get a lot more flow out of a set of cast heads, for less cost and the flow is worth more than the weight. In fact, head porting and fiberglass doesn't add up to the cost of the Rover heads. How did you word it? Oh yes: "you're essentially adding hp by removing a ton of weight (making your car faster and handle better)" Now before you jump all over me again, I agree the Rover heads are our best option in an aluminum head, but they are very costly, and need different intakes, driving the cost up more. That takes us right back to needing heads and intakes for a 350. Not a bus I'm going to be jumping on any time soon.
Saw the episode today and loved it!! If you look at the stuff most SBC guys do when they pick up a motor like that, its not too different than what was shown on the show. Except you get alot more torque and a smoother curve with the buick. I would have liked to see that carb used with a 1" or even 2" spacer and revved to 6000rpm. I bet there would have been a bit more HP in there. Th 1" spacer fits just fine under a skylark hood, and a 2" would be close but still doable. Thanks for picking a buick.:bglasses:
I was going to post earlier what I thought about the TV show but when I started to see all the flaming going on, I thought I'd let things settle down a bit. To start with at the very start of the show it stated budget build, so why in the hell would you expect 400HP. This episode of HPTV show what the results would probably be for the novice engine builder on a budget. What does the novice do on a budget? Big cam cost the same as small cam maybe I can make up my deficit in money with a big cam. WRONG If you have drawn a conclusion on estimated HP on what you have seen in magazine articles your off by 10%. If you have an estimation based on a $20 PC program, it may be close on a Chevy but with a Buick you can forget it. I have them all including a $500 program and they will give you some inclination of direction to go on changes but not very close on actual output. Next the expectation of 400 HP out of a pump gas 350 with factory heads is way over rated. I have done a dozen or so 350s and with a two plane manifold, less than 10-1 compression, stock ring package, stock rockers I.E. budget build. In three words. It Aint Happnin. I have seen a lot of heartbreak when people bring their cookie cutter Chevy and Ford engines to the dyno and find out what the real world is, most fall short about 20% in other words their 500 HP engine was more like 400HP. As far as (in some opinions) not putting on a good showing and making the Buick look bad. We performed the machine work on the engine, knew what parts were going to be used and knew going in pretty close to what the results would be. The showing was that it took a licking on the dyno and came out unscathed, that is a good showing. A word about the 1975 heads. YUCK They flowed about195 before any work. They flowed about 190 after big valves. The short side was murdered. After bowl blending they flowed about 205 After spending about 4 hours in a Bridgeport port matching they flowed about 230. You guys here have to remember, you have a forum to throw things around, discuss and make judgments on what you will do based on the failures and successes that others here have had. The average guy with a Buick watching TV is not on this forum and my basis for that statement is that since the airing of the show my phone has rang off the hook mostly by people that have never heard of T/A Performance or Automotive Machine & Performance. I for one am totally satisfied with the outcome of the show, it makes guys like Jim Wiese and myself look real good and that is not to take away anything from John Bouchard or HPTV, they are not in the business of building Buick engines, they are in the business of making a TV show.
First off I just want to say welcome to V8Buick, as you can see most of us are supporting you! A few suggestions if you are interested: - Might as well leave the bottom end alone, no need for forged pistons without a power adder - If you are interested in trying a single plane intake then one of us might lend you a custom sheet metal intake to try I know you may not be aware of previous builds however there have been some Buick 350s in the 500-560 HP range NA at around 10:1 compression so it can be done. Head porting and a single plane intake are the keys, and or boost as suggested. I also like the idea of using the twin turbo kit from Burton Machine on this mild engine. Swap in some low compression pistons and boost it with 7 PSI, that will wake it up! You might even be able to get away with just using some 60 thou head gaskets to lower the compression a bit. Thanks for building a Buick 350, and we are more than willing to help you get that 350 making some steam!!:beers2:
