Unbelievable Cam bearings failure.

The timing cover was marked as the TA upgrade. I didn't take pictures but I will. Spoke with Mike from TA recently. He mentioned a oil galley plug upgrade. And upgraded Teflon coated dual grooved cam bearings. I am waiting for delivery. But seriously. Wtf? This seriously is not normal stuff. These cam bearings should not have failed. Teflon or not. Unless they were installed incorrectly. I'll find out soon.

 

A little squirt is probably extra insurance.

I would also expect the oil slinger on the crank to throw a little oil up inside the front cover. I've had a heck of a time sealing a fuel pump cover when I put an electric pump on my car and there always seems to be oil in the valley behind the distributor.

 

I get you Frankie70GS.
When I rebuild my Chevy 327 that was in a corner field in Vermont in 1970, the build was so easy.
Nothing special had to be done.
It ran like a monster. Loved that mouse motor. Vet

 

Watch binding with the Teflon coated bearings. My cam wouldn't turn with them

 

I've tore down probably 50..maybe close to 75 original 400-455s....only cam bearings I recall seeing that were toast were the front bearing and even then it just would have the sides cut down and the center would be higher where I the groove on the cam was....

I'm betting that cam journal Dia are all over the place on cams...bearings get drove in Uneven and they distort....I've had to polish cam journals with sand paper to get them to "feel" right plenty of times and not just buicks

 

The older guys will remember all the issues we had with cam bearings. Especially building one up with higher spring pressure and such. It wasn't unheard of going through two or three sets before a set lived. I couldn't take it anymore and worked on a better bearing. First upgraded bearing we sold had a single groove and on the back side of the first bearing with one oil hole. We also test filled the groove in the front journal with JB Weld and machined/polished it to size. That help a lot to get more surface to carry load. But then we noticed bearing deflection where the single groove ran. Bearing shell was to thin, and obviously the load was pretty high to move the steel bearing shell. Once in awhile we would still loose bearings on a start up. From there I calculated the volume of the single groove and added a center support in the groove and sized the two grooves to move the same volume of oil . Basically created a bridge support. Plus added a second oil delivery hole. It worked. These the sets are sold with 5 wide bearings which carried more load, deliver the oil key points in all locations to this day. The addition of the coating just helps get them through there first moments of start up. The JB Weld worked well and was looked at after 7 continuous years of service. No signs of wear on the JB Weld, along with No wear pattern on the front cam bearings. I cleaned the groove well, even used a little sand paper to rough it up. I put the cam in a lathe so I could rotate it very slowly after i applied the JB. This just helped it from sagging, and I could walk away. Cut it down then polished. You will need to use the TA1559 bearing after doing this.
Note. ALL 455 TA Roller cams/cores do NOT have the groove in the first journal. You HAVE to run the TA1559 or plumb oil to the driver side lifter gallery.

Oddly, having to be innovative to race a Buick is why I'm here telling a story today. There are many people that have went through this with me, customers, which turned into friends. It makes me feel good knowing that I have somehow brought joy to you through my efforts. The calls of appreciation help me get up everyday and do it again. I was told once, "My dad lives to work, I only work to live" Well I say, that person will never know the true joy and success work can bring to one. I've always liked this from JL. "Success only comes before work in the dictionary". Just saying. So, you all get back to work and don't let that Buick kick you butt. I didn't.

 

Should do the 350 roller cores with no groove also, though you don’t sell as many 350 rollers as 455’s
I started having my 350 cams front journal groove spray welded closed and machined years ago when I saw the 85/86/87 Buick 3.8’s had no groove in the journal and grooved the bearing bore instead, I thought “THATS a better idea all the way around, positive oil transfer, and more load area”

 

Actually, our V6 and 350 cores have no groove

 

When I ordered my 350 roller cam 3/4/5 years ago you were only doing the 455 cores w/no groove.
No biggie, it’s cool your doing it now

 

So. Scotty at Jack Merkle contacted me this morning. The shortblock is all true. Including the cam bore. In fact the cam itself is actually fine. Just the cam bearings need changing. So here I am. Scotty wants to know. Do I want to go with a TA roller set up? Or keep what I have. Of course I want the best except I'm in the middle of a new kitchen for the wife. A freaking roller cam deal for a Buick 455 is about 3k. So do I live with the flat tappet cam . Or have my wife kill me? Not kidding. I'm thinking stay alive with what I have

 

I Believe TA currently has roller cores. With a grind 950+ shipping. Roll lifters roughly 850 so under 2K for a roller set up, If you currently have roller rockers.

 

Yeah, either keep what you have or wait to go roller.
Honestly it’s just a car/machine, if you want to do it right, save for the roller, finish the kitchen, keep your wife happy AND you!

 

Don't believe that there will be much, if any load difference on the bearings with a roller vs a flat tappet in the size of hyd flat tappet cams we are talking about here.

In fact, due to the usually higher lift, and much more aggressive ramp speeds of the roller cam, I would suggest that the an equal size roller cam actually loads the bearings more than that cam being a flat tappet, with much slower opening ramps.

I don't believe that to be a factor in this failure, so I would have no concern about putting a flat tappet cam in with TA bearings, done litterally hundreds of them over the years, lost exactly 2 sets of bearings, and both were caused by global oiling issues in the engine.

You guys wonder why I bitch so much about you filling up the oil pump with vaseline... let me tell you a story on this Thanksgiving morning.

1st failure was with one of the very first engines I built, back when I was about 20 years old.. Race 430 with a KB Mark 4 camshaft (big)... lots of second hand used parts.. that kind of build... and that engine had a questionable oil pump on it, and did not make enough oil pressure, we lost those bearings on cam break-in, in my driveway in our 70GS (this was my pre-dyno period) Lost a really nice Mrk 4 cam too, as we flattened a lobe on it, due to not enough oiling during break in... ya, we were dumb kids back then, knowing just enough to be dangerous.. "sure, 30 psi is plenty during break in"..

The second failure happened just a few years ago.

Mind you, I have built Buick 455's, over 150 of them by that time, for a living for 25 years. But I got lazy once and it bit me.

Brand new 482 shortblock, customers top end and a brand new TA built timing cover. For years, my standard procedure was to take a heat gun, and melt the vaseline that they use when they assemble those covers out of it, prior to me putting it on the engine. TA puts vasoline in them for a number of reasons, mainly to protect themselves from the brain dead among us, so I understand why, and don't fault them.. if the cover is used right away, and especially on a used engine, your going to have no problem.

But in this case, the cover was built 5 years earlier, and I had no idea.. I had only had it for a relatively short time, after it was sent to me by the customer. But he had it for years before then, as he collected parts for his build.

Normal assembly and did my normal 15- 30 second prelube.. that is all that is required. The pre-lube procedure has one goal, and one only..to insure the oil pump will suck oil from the pan to the pump when it starts. Proper assembly lubrication provides plenty of protection for the instant before pressurized oil reaches the bearings/load surfaces.

Started it up on the dyno, had instant great oil pressure, no issues at all during warmup.

3rd pull it lost 10 HP.. and as long as the timing doesn't move on you, or something stupid happen with the fuel, that doesn't happen unless the engine is hurting itself.

Pulled it off the dyno and took it back to the shop.

Disassembly revealed 2 failed cam bearings (4 and 5) and a failed rear main bearing. Main Bearings 1-4 were fine.

So that's head scratcher.. until I remembered that because I was in a hurry I did not do my normal heat the oil pump up to melt the vasoline out of it deal.. and the pump was pretty hard to turn over right from the get-go. More load on the drill than normal.

Factors-- that rear main in the factory oiling scheme, and the cam bearings with the back grooves being the only thing exposed the the oil passage, are the last to actually introduce oil to the bearing surfaces.

The only conclusion I could come up with is that a slug of partially petrified vaseline restricted oil flow just long enough to break thru the protection layer provided by the prelube, before it was supplied with pressurized oil. That engine had no bypass line, if it had it may have prevented this whole deal, as oil would have had an alternate pathway to the main galley. Maybe.. depends on where the restriction was, but we had 70psi plus on start up, so it had to be after the oil pump, and were measuring pressure at the factory oil pressure sender location, which is also where we feed a bypass line.

ON that engine, dissemble, clean, replace cam and main bearings, polish the cam and crank journals.. NO other changes. Same clearances it had when built the first time, Dynoed at nearly 600 HP, and is in the customer's race car today.

Moral of our little tale here:

I don't give a rats hairy butt what the factory service manual says, there is no reason on your part, as the end user, to introduce anything into your oiling system besides oil and light to medium bodied pre-lube. Period.

New builds, are built with a dry pump, and it's super easy to lube the pump to get it to suck oil.. after you put the timing cover/oil pan on, and before you put the heads on or the lifters in, simply tip the engine so that the cavity where the oil comes from the pump to the oil filter is vertical. Then, with your oil pump primer installed, simply take a squirt can and pump 30 wt oil into that hole, while spinning the pump backward (counter-clockwise as viewed from the top of the engine). You will hear the gears go "glug glug glug" as they suck up the oil.

Then simply flip it over, install the lifters, a dry oil filter, and the oil in the engine. With a flat tappet cam, don't dump 5 quarts of oil over the cam, you wash the prelube off it that way.. use a funnel thru the distributor hole.

Then install your oil pump tool, and spin with an electric drill.. I use a Milwaukee 18V cordless, with it set on the high torque/low speed setting (1) and in about 5-10 seconds, it will fill the system and slow the drill down, run it for another 10 seconds or so, and your done.

Now, make sure you have all the oil passages plugged, to do this with the heads off.. that includes the hole in the deck on the LH side on the 455 and later 350's, and both sides on the 400/430 and early 350 motors. If your still using oil thru the head on these motors, then you will have to put the heads and rocker gear on, but no worries, your not under any kind of time constraints here.. I have sucked the oil up into the pump, and then come back the next day and completed the pre lube procedure.

If your doing repair work, then take and introduce oil or a thicker bodied prelube (like Clevite bearing guard) into that hole in the filter housing, with the timing cover inverted, spin the gears backward, and then assemble and spin the pump to insure it sucks oil before you put the distributor in..

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone, I need to get out to the shop and fry a Turkey..

JW

 

Yup....like starting a motor with sludge in it.....will show pressure but not volume.

A local shop now out of business built a buddy's motor (a Buick but they don't do many) and said no they don't use vaseline in the pump we use white lubriplate....guess what? motor ate the cam bearings on startup on THEIR dyno. Good thing..... they had to fix it. I never had them do more than a short block (I did the rest) so never had any issues. I do what Jim does and fill the pump with OIL and breakin lube mixture before installing timing cover.

 

Never understood the Vaseline
method. Another example of Buick mystery builds.

A lot of people say, rebuilding Buicks are a lot like rebuilding Chevy's. That's not true with me, I've rebuilt two SB Chevy engines and never ran into some of the issues I've heard of on this forum.
Buicks are just designed different from other GM engines. Just have to learn the difference quicks of the rebuilding process. That's just part of some issues.

The other issues is how Buick BB's made a huge amount of torque with such small combustion chambers.
Looking at the original dish pistons, plus they are in the hole a long ways, means there can't be a squish band.

My Buick GS 455 has so much touque, I can't get traction.
I have decided to install Mickey Thompson street drag slicks.
This car has so much low end touque, it's impossible to floor it at a standstill or even a rolling start with our boiling the tires.
Street slicks should cure that.

Here is another issue I ran into, you all know. This engine can take the largest CFM carburators I have ever experienced. Amazing is all I can say. Or maybe WoW. Vet

 

I've done Vaseline a handful of times in the past. I now use lucas stabilizer additive for pretty much everything except cylinder walls. Just enough to get everything sticky.

 

In fact, due to the usually higher lift, and much more aggressive ramp speeds of the roller cam, I would suggest that the an equal size roller cam actually loads the bearings more than that cam being a flat tappet, with much slower opening ramps

because of cams design, should we be looking smaller lobes, but bigger rocker arm ratios? kind of like nascar with 2.0 ratio's?
my 350 cam is at base circle and if installed wrong all hell breaks loose. thats why i am looking at rockrs 1.7 and bigger

 

I have roller rockers , old Kenne Bell jobs that honestly if I'm going roller I'm going new TA roller rockers for another 1400. Like I said a 3k hit but nows really the time to do it. I have to wait for head gaskets anyway so I'm going to talk it over with the builder and see about waiting until January. That would help.