To put '64 300 heads on the 350 block I've got in the garage, I'd have to plug 8 odd shaped water passages in the block. This 350 block is an early solid pushrod, aluminum rocker, Jeep block (69 or 70). Forget about the Rover heads. The late Rover heads with slightly bigger valves only have 29cc chambers. The early Rover heads (identical to 215 heads) have a 37cc chamber. '64 300 heads have a 54cc chamber, can be ported to flow about 200 @ .50 intake, 150 exhaust. Maybe a bit more if the porter is familiar with the 45 year old head design (hollow laugh). Some of the Olds 215 heads had large wedge chambers and larger valves on the centerline of the chamber, but would require serious rocker shaft pedestal modification to work on a 350 block. Wildcat heads go for $3500-4000 a pair. Maybe more with the current exchange rate. It would be far cheaper to buy two pairs of alloy V6 heads, go at them with a band saw, and weld up one pair of V8 heads. Real Steel has a new Rover head out but I haven't read any flow numbers on it. My feeling is the fabled alloy Buick 350 head may very well stay vaporware. Every year of delay, the market shrinks considerably... I wanted to go the other way with a pair, bolt high flowing alloy 350 heads onto a late 3.7" bore crossbolted Rover block, turn down the mains on a 350 crank, cut down the bearing journals on a 350 cam to fit the block, and create a 335cid all alloy engine. Still could happen. Someday. Rick(wrench)
It would be nice if there were a good priced alum. head of either type. If it were the 350, I'd use it with an alum. dual plane and Q.jet on a mild 355 to make a good light powerplant. If it were the 340, it would go into my collection. But what would happen if a manufacturer were to be pressured into going down a path that sends them broke just because a handful of people want a low volume of products? I have seen this happen before and mostly it happens to people it should not happen to. The market and good sense should be the decider. The way I look at it is that not having all the fancy parts makes people more ingeneous. Look at all the things people are doing on this website. That is the main reason I come here. There are still plenty of things that can be done with what is already available.
Speaking of low volume, the Ford small six (144, 170, 200cid) has a very nice aftermarket alloy head now available (classicinlines.com). One guy, with a boatload of determination and not a lot of cash (he took some deposits), got it done, start to finish. It a beautiful piece. I wonder who did the casting for him. Rick(wrench)
I've posted a request on the British V8 forum. I've seen the stats somewhere, perhaps in a book I've got. I'm pretty sure the numbers are less than GM's production totals for '61 to '63 but we should know soon. yeah, i think that was in one of those online articles about hot rodding the 1961-63 215 linked within the last month. maybe a more relevant question would be "what's the size of the Rover aftermarket in round numbers?" absolute total Rover production may not be that great but they were still putting them out in 2004. the 'survivor' rate on <10year old power plants has to be any easy order ( maybe two ) of magnitude better than engines that were last out >40 years ago. only having to beat $4000/pr for heads to break into a market should be tempting. especially with the USD headed down.
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-Autocar-Article.htm "GM produced more aluminium V8 engines in just three years than Rover built in total." i'm not sure if this editorial interjection is from the original 1976 printing of the story or if it's from the Dec 2007 British v8 newsletter editors. that would obviously make a huge difference in the accuracy of the BL/Rover production statement. it does have this disclaimer: Re-printed unedited by exclusive written permission of "Autocar". o No: "In fact, although 750,000 aluminium engines ( this is about the Buick/Olds production run ) were produced in various form, it was also successfully run as a 5 litre engine with the cylinder liners deleted and the block cast in iron instead of aluminium. A further 750,000 5 litre iron engines from the same tools were subsequently built." so that right there would be 1.5 million 215's and 300's in GM production. another .5 mill in Rover production? more? +340ci production.
Looks like Rover's production was, "Just shy of one million units.." at least that's the figure I've been seeing. How many years of production did they have on the 340? Two years? So a fair guess on the numbers for that engine might be 1/2 million? Jim
How many years of production did they have on the 340? Two years? So a fair guess on the numbers for that engine might be 1/2 million? the 340 split applications with the 300 so that would have cut it's per year production numbers. like how the 400 and 430 cut into each other from 1967-1969. working with the production numbers at TeamBuick i count 324,199 that are positively 340's with another ~10,000 in GS 340s and then there are 257,587 v8 Specials/Skylarks which would split duty with the 300. a half mill probably isn't far off but i would still think it was high. http://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/66.shtml http://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/67.shtml so Code: 750,000~ 215 750,000~ 300 400,000~ 340 1,000,000~ Rover variants __________ 2.9 million additional possible unit applications over pure 350 production from 1968-1981 with many of those being 'hard' ( more recent ) numbers in Rover production. and with thriving use in the aftermarket and sport applications such as the Bowler Wildcat. TA might also want to talk to somebody like D&D Fabrications to get an idea of how many domestic US applications there might be a market for on the smaller motors.
Pic 1. Top to bottom: Buick 215 Buick 300 Buick 300 (cast iron) Buick 350 Pic 2. Left to Right: Buick 215 Buick 300 Leyland P76 Buick 340 Buick 350 Greg
Thanks Greg!!!!! Do you have the heads also? It looks like the 340 and 350 could be switched but the 215, Rover and 300 won't work on either the 340 or 350. You would have to make something to cover the hole left by the different shape of the intake manifold.
Do you have the heads also? yeah, if you've got all this stuff ( heads and intakes ) surely you've tried swapping them to different blocks?
No, you can't interchange the 340 and 350 intakes. If you look closely, you'll see that port in the middle of the 350 head isn't a port, it's heat crossover. The 350 ports are paired where the only ports paired on the 215 - 340 are the center ones. I put the pic up for you to compare port sizes. The 350 ports are twice as large as the 215. Greg
No, you can't interchange the 340 and 350 intakes. yes, many of us know that. the real question though is, can you swap the 340 intake and heads to a 350 block or vice versa? i thought you were the one who posted all those comparo pics of the various heads..... if the oil and water ports line up close enough a convincing case could be made for TA designing an aluminum head which would fit on all of these engines.
Oh... I SEE (said the blind man!). You're correct of course. A "universal" head can fit all of the blocks, BUT, the iron blocks have two big oblong openings in each deck. If the universal head could be made without a corresponding opening (or a circular one that could be easily plugged), I don't see any problem. Greg
Oh... I SEE (said the blind man!). just to bring you up to speed ( since it appears you just popped into the tail end of this thread ), TA made an announcement ~6 months ago that they're planning a single plane intake for the 350 and then aluminum heads. our goal here is to provide justification to TA to design the proposed upcoming aluminum 350 pieces with the older port layout. also, some of the participants are trying to put Rover heads on their 350s. either way, you make it sound very promising. anybody know what the total production run of Buick 350 engines was?
Sure drop it off anytime. I've had a look at the decks of my 1970 350. Block # 1382201 Heads # B 1233472 Comparing them to photos, it looks like all the water passages are in the same places as the 340. The 300 Alum. heads don't have the openings but should cover the openings in the block. There is a pad on the 350 deck that should cover the opening in the 340 head that is on the exhaust side of the deck next to the centre bolt hole. One is forward of the bolt hole, one is behind. Can't remember which way around but can recheck. I can't tell if the oil passages line up or not. Some time ago I sat a P76 head on the 350 block. From memory it fits well, chambers looked good from crankcase. The ends of the P76 head comes up short of the ends of 350 block, looks funny. Decks will need plugging. Locate with dummy cutter on mill to locate the hole so as not to take any meat away from the thread boss, looks like it will take a 1 inch plug, don't know how to make it seal though. P76 should be the same as a Rover head, but not much point really. Next I will try a P76 cam in the 350 block to see how the lobes line up with the lifter bores. I am assuming that the P76 cam is the same as 300/340
Don't mean to stray but what ever happened to that over head cam mod??? Someone found some inline 4 banger heads that matched up to the SBB.
Someone found some inline 4 banger heads that matched up to the SBB. :shock: guh, what? how did i miss that?
