Head and cam swap, guidance for a newbie?

Paul, Sorry I dont remember exactly, but I made sure I pushed not pulled the piston up both directions using the dial indicator on the piston and adjusted the wheel as needed to find the center. Did it a couple times just to make sure i was doing it right haha. I can check that 11.5 again tonight.

Thanks for the details guys, while still fairly confusing, having these steps you give is really making it easier and im starting to understand it more and more as i go. I now see why the cam needs to be degreed! If I just ran it dot to dot like its installed im sure I wouldn't be happy with it. Im enjoying this learning experience. Ill get on it tonight and post again

 

I went at it again... Double checked for TDC once more, installed the timing chain crank gear with it on the +4 Triangle up/cam gear dot down setting.
With the Intake lifter @.050 lift I now am at 1* ATDC and 36* ABDC.
Exhaust @.050 is 46* BBDC?
And 6* ATDC
If im following the math right im getting the intake lobe center is at 108.5*??
When it should be at 106*? So I am still 2.5* retarded?
Intake....



Seems better though right? I think my pointer is a little thick for these tight degrees on this wheel. My degrees are as best I can judge when looking at it.

To answer your question Paul, yes 11.5 before and after TDC looked about right on the wheel. Actually it looked more like 12. Maybe my pointer is too fat for the degree marks on this wheel.

 

I think your pretty close. Should run good. I was thinking you would have to advance the cam since first reading was 8 degrees behind spec, TA performance does have a crank gear that has more settings in 2 degree increments that you can get to get that closer to the 3 btdc . But I think you will be good where your at if you don't go that far

 

The intake does appear to be at 108.5 ATDC which is 2.5* off and a 4.5* change from last time which seems right.
The exhaust duration is 232* with it's center at 110* BTDC which makes the LSA 107.5* instead of the specified 110*.

If you want to spend more time playing with this you can try the intake again only this time as you turn the crank clockwise, when the dial gets to .050" don't let go of the wrench that turns the crank.
Keep pressure on it while taking the reading off the wheel.
I like to run through it several times just to see if the numbers are repeating each time.

Then there is a second method for verification where you take readings .050" down from the top of the cam lobe.
Zero the dial when the lifter is all the way up and check .050" down from both sides while turning the crank clockwise only.

No need to post pictures again, just the readings. Looks like you got this.

If the cam is at 108.5 the engine will run just fine.
You get a little more attention to upper end HP at the expense of some low end torque. Probably not enough difference to tell by driving.
Also consider that as the timing chain wears over time and stretches the cam will retard further.

The only option I know of is the 7 key TA chain set which is the Rollmaster CS7000. It has up to a +6 keyway.
For $145 + shipping buys you another 2 degrees which means you may want to call what you have good to go.

 

I like the sound of that, I think I'll call it good then! I may run through the numbers again and verify the consistency like you said.
I know it probably doesnt seem like much to the experienced person but man at first this was very intimidating. I learned a lot through this thread that I didnt think I would and I appreciate the time everyone of you took to help me out! Im halfway there.

When It comes time to fire it up for break in, are my valve springs ok to run as is without too much pressure? Do i need to remove the inner dampener and just run the outter? They are TA stage1 springs.

 

The open valve pressure will be around 265 to 275 lbs which is ok for break-in as is.
That also depends on the installed spring height being 1.700" or a little more.

This is a similar case as not checking the cam timing when being installed.
There is at least one case on the BBB side where a cam was damaged because the springs were not checked for coil bind.
After the valve job the spring retainers need to be installed on the valve stems without the springs and measure the distance under the retainer to the head spring pockets.
It would be good to have all 16 near 1.730"

Nice job on checking the cam timing. I hope you take the time to run it through again using .050" down from the lobe tip just for experience.
Now when you see someone asking if the cam timing needs to be checked or if you see someone advising that it is not necessary, you can share some words of wisdom.

Paul

 

Thanks Paul, I went ahead and ran it through again, and also went from the lobe center back .050 each way, all the numbers come up consistant.
Its a pretty cool feeling to look at all this, crank through finding my degrees, and have a better understanding of what Im looking at compared to when I first set it up. This is what I love about this v8Buick group. Very helpful to the next guy, i enjoy working on cars and definitely enjoy passing on some knowledge where i can as well. Now time to clean up my valve covers, brackets, etc while i wait for my timing cover

 

Not much but have some progress goin on. So far I've gotten this far and have an "Ohhh S***" moment. I've missed something. I found this split ring sitting amongst my tools on the cart. Its about an inch in width. Can someone tell me what this is and where it goes? I'm really hoping I don't have to pull the timing cover. I bag n tag every bolt but somehow missed this.
The ring has paint on it so maybe something outside? wherever it goes???

 

I don't recognize that part . But make sure you put oil slinger on before timing cover

 

Oil slinger is on. Hmmm now that I think of it, what keeps the oil slinger from riding front to back on the shaft? Could this be some sort of lock ring to keep the slinger in place? Ive been stressin my brain trying to think of what this could be

 

That ring is not part of your engine Matt. The slinger will be held in place by the lower timing gear and the harmonic balancer. Is that ring hard rubber maybe? And thanks for the shirt, was in mail yesterday. Nice work. Matches my seat head rests great.

 

Glad to hear! Your very welcome!.
Ok that makes sense about the slinger.
Maybe that ring didnt come from the motor lol. To be honest I rarely ever misplace or have an extra item when wrenching. Im pretty particular about keeping everything in order and putting it back together correctly. This one just freaked me out when I seen it sitting there. To answer your question its a hard metal ring. Oddly it's got old red paint on it, which made me think it was from the motor.

 

Maybe a lock washer for harmonic balancer. But I don't remember them having one. Red paint if anything would be outside engine

 

Update* engine is back together and runs! Here's the break in and an idle clip of the sound.https://vimeo.com/161424934

 

Idle after break in.. I like the sound
https://vimeo.com/161425645

 

Everything went together well and I had zero leaks
My concerns are, it has a hard time idling, mostly in gear. It's timed at about 12* with VA unplugged, the carb wasn't touched since it was removed and ran great before, but decided to use vacuum gauge and see what I can do, can get it to pull about 14 maybe 15 on the gauge. It just seems to idle pretty erratic under 1000rpm or so when I drop it in gear it almost wants to die. Almost like retarded timing Is the cam/head work going to warrant some carb/timing changes from where I was before? Something else?
Also I know i should have a stall converter and better gear ratio but off the line it pulls a
little Weaker than before. Pedal to the floor barely squeaks the tires. It does start to pull hard a little after. Could this be my incomplete combo so far? Needing converter and gears? Maybe needs more timing? It doesn't ping at all. Overall I am very happy it went well and sounds great. Just would like to work out the rough low idle in gear and how to get a quicker launch back.

 

The new cam will need more initial timing.
After you find an initial timing that works be sure to check the total timinng.
You may have to limit the amount of mechanical advance.

 

Ok, that's kind Of what the idle reminds me of, retarded timing. I was thinking of just going up a degree or 2 until it doesn't like it then back off 1.
Thats something I need to do for sure, recurve and limit total of needed. Its still the factory points setup

 

I think you should have alitte move vacuum at idle.but add timing and if you put the headers on your going to want to bump jets up . adjusting point or conversion kit may help too. Get some premium fuel. Yes converter and gear will help some but you may need some tuning