factory power ratings

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by kohlgs455, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Dale

    Dale Sweepspear

    I like this quote attributed to Dennis Manner.

    "Torque moves iron"

    :TU:
     
  2. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    That's correct.. HP is generally about right in the 350-375 HP range.

    2 things to point out here in relation to the torque output I have seen.

    1. replacement pistons are not available with a 16 cc dish, so there is no way around cutting the decks to get back the compression. So I would stop short of saying it's "identical" to a factory STG 1. The factory motor did also spec to 10.25-1 compression, and I would not build that compression these days, with an iron head motor and stock cam, because you will be running it on some mix of race fuel/pump premo, and very few folks want to hassel with that. I spec a "stock" engine these days, with a small duration cam, out to no more than 9.5 compression, to run it on pump fuels. I have built several with say a 212 cam, 9.3 compression and they come out at 375-380 HP, 465-475 torque. In fact, that's the specs of the motor in my truck, and I run that one on regular unleaded, with the timing pushed back just a touch. If I wanted to run premo, I could maximize my timing. That motor is stock, save for a little bit of bowl and chamber work on the heads.

    And compression = torque, so that will account for some of the loss from the factory rating.

    2. When Cliff Studaker was here (designer and Engineer for Buick Powertain from 1950-1980) and Dennis Manner's boss, I asked him specifically about the torque number, and he smiled at me and said "Well, we used to fudge those numbers a little from time to time".. but he could not recall if that was done in relation to the 455. But, in general, that was the number the Buick guys would play with, to make sure they stayed on top of the other GM divisions. The importance of the torque number to the factory guys, is clearly illustrated if we go back and look at the nailhead motors.. they "stickered" and promoted that engine based on torque.. ie "Wildcat 465". That's a clear example of the importance of torque output to the factory engineers, and marketing folks back then.

    I would say that a true stock 70 STG 1 motor, with 10.25 compression, would make very near 510 ft lbs, based on my testing with "near stock" 70 STG 1 engines. But I have never seen that, to date.

    The only guys who have wanted me to build a true stock STG 1 engine, with no porting, and the stock STG 1 cam, have been resto guys with true number 1 condition show cars, and those cars are not driven. So those motors only see the run stand for a break-in and leak and noise check.. they don't go to the dyno, and they are not 10.25-1, since we have to bore for ring seal issues, and I can't cut the deck, as we would lose the stampings.
     

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