Z BAR Questions

Discussion in 'U-shift em' started by 64special300, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. 64special300

    64special300 Well-Known Member

    I'm about to drill my 455 block for a zbar stud and am wondering if the thread size and pitch are the same for all buick applications.
    I have the original dog bone style 64 setup from my car and think I am going to use that unless there is a better setup.
    I have heard there are 2 different setups big block and small block?
    Basically I would like to know what works best for a 455 swap into a 64 special (Ball stud to block and Zbar Solid or my original.)

    I've used search but cant find the specific info im looking for
    I'm not sure if Dave Keliners setup will work or if he is around.

    Anyone have any suggestions as to what setup they have used in this swap

    Kelly
     
  2. 64special300

    64special300 Well-Known Member

  3. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    I don't know if the small block/big block Z-bar differences are a Chevy thing or not (I figured it was to clear the exhaust manifold), and know even less about the '64 chassis, but what I do know is I used a z-bar off a Chevy straight six (L6) on my car when I did the Buick 455 manual swap and it worked perfectly. I would think that if the L6 and small block are the same, then the small block one would be good.
     
  4. 64special300

    64special300 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Silver that helps but I am looking for some more specific info regarding installing a 455 in a 64 chassis:)

    I have a couple questions.

    1. Will my stock 300ci zbar and ball stud work geometrically? (its the early multi piece dogbone style) My stock cast iron unit is shot at the bottom of where the clutch adjuster screws in (ball is very loose)
    2. Is the stud that screws into the block the same thread pitch and diameter for all applications from buick (I am tempted to drill and tap the block so this info is critical).
    3. Is there a solid style z bar that I should use for this application (Part #, vendor, years that swap.)

    Thanks:)

    Kelly
     
  5. gsgnnut

    gsgnnut Well-Known Member

    I used a zbar from a 67 lark v8 in my 72 suncoupe with a BBB/4sp .The length is correct from the block to the frame but I had to make a longer clutch push rod and slightly bend the push rod lever to clear the header but it works just fine. I am surprised your block is not pre drilled and tapped for the ball stud. Mine BB was from an automatic and still had the tapped hole but the crank wasn't finished drilled/bored for the pilot bearing. :puzzled:
     
  6. 64special300

    64special300 Well-Known Member

    Interesting

    ust be a different year block. My block has the boss for the stud cast but isn't tapped to and ready for the stud to just screw in. My crank was rough drilled but necked down at the 1/2" +- depth so I ended up using the dick miller adaptor pilot.

    Anyone with a 64-67 that can comment on the z bar specs?
     
  7. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    From my casual observations, the BBB were drilled/machined for manual transmissions until it seems 1973 or 1974. I have two 455's, both '72s, one out of a Centurion and the other out of an Electra, and both were drilled for the pin and pilot bushing.

    If you have OE linkage for the '64, my money is on it'll fit the 455. GM did well with the clevis pin location being in the same place on essentially every engine post '64 (or when ever the BOP/Chevy bellhousings became standard castings). Though knowing exactly where to drill the threaded hole is a key piece of information. Look for a divot or something on the pad where the hole goes, often times there is an alignment mark in the casting.
     
  8. philbquick

    philbquick Founders Club Member

    I hate to complicate things, but, I had a 64 Special 300 3 on the tree that, in short order, became a 4 on the floor and it worked fine with the 300 in it. I took the 300 out and replaced it with a 340, that's when the trouble started. When banging second gear the Z bar would bind and the clutch pedal would stay on the floor until I let off the gas, then the pedal came back up. I guess the motor mounts were too soft or something.

    About 20 years later I bought a 65 Special Convertible 300 3 on the tree and it had a totally different Z bar set-up. I assume they did this to solve the binding problem. The upper lever arm attached to the Z bar as normal, the other end of the Z bar tube didn't have an lever arm on it, instead it had a 1/4" slot milled into it about an inch deep on center of the tube. The lower lever arm attached to the block separately and had a ball with a 1/4 pin through it. To install it, I attached the lower lever arm to the block, then slid the Z bar tube over the ball aligning the pin in the slot, then attached the other pivot point into the fork on the frame as normal. I've been working on cars for almost 50 years and it's the only time I've ever seen this set-up.

    The bottom line is, be sure the Z bar doesn't bind when you bang second gear or you could have dents in your hood and a hole in your pan. If you have this problem you could probably solve it by adding a torque limiting strap on the drivers side of the engine like I (and many others) have on my GN. Buicks have soft motor mounts.
     
  9. Clanceman427

    Clanceman427 Hardtops need not apply

    I can tell you that the aftermarket pivot ball from The Parts Place is 1/2-20 thread. Measure the thread on your stock pivot ball to see if that has the same thread.
     
  10. 64special300

    64special300 Well-Known Member

    Phil Interesting thank you

    Clance, thank you! I'll measure my stock stud up hopefully it's the sam pitch and diameter.

    I can figure out the z bar itself and prolly will make one if I cant use my original which is worn out anyways but this info helps me get the motor in the car Thanks!

    Anyone have a lead on a aftermarket z-bar setup that would work on a 455 to 64 special/lark with ta frame pads and ta shorty headers?

    Thanks all for your replies so far

    Kelly
     
  11. Clanceman427

    Clanceman427 Hardtops need not apply

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