Wix Filter Issues?

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Briz, Apr 23, 2023.

  1. Ken Mild

    Ken Mild King of 18 Year Resto's

    What's the black cap for? Is that just to unscrew it?
     
  2. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    Yes, it is an adapter that fits perfectly on the housing. It is nice that they did that, because any other oil filter tool might have a hard time getting a grip on it.
     
    Ken Mild likes this.
  3. inverse121

    inverse121 Well-Known Member

    I posted in the other thread previously, but this seems to be getting the views now. I can confirm I have had some oil pressure issues at startup including a bypass valve stuck open several times so I dismissed some of this. Well not anymore.

    Oil pressure at startup issues started again on Monday.my first thought was stuck open bypass again. But it wasn’t.

    The current filter has about 300 miles on it and was installed on 4/5/23. So I’ve tried to do a little testing. Over the last 3 days. Today I confirmed an “empty” wix filter after an overnight sit, twice! The drain back valve is useless. It’s essentially open. There was a few ounces of oil in it. I put a pipe nipple in the filter and breathed into it and air flowed freely from the holes. I went through the 4 filters I have left and performed the same breathe test and picked the “best” of the bunch. Filled it with oil, installed it and instant oil pressure at startup.

    IMG_4339.jpeg
     
  4. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    I don't understand how a stuck-open BYPASS valve can reduce oil pressure. If the filter is plugged, an open bypass valve might increase pressure, though.

    Do you mean a stuck-open PRESSURE RELIEF valve in the oil pump?
     
  5. inverse121

    inverse121 Well-Known Member

    I’m not as smart as you, maybe Bob will come to my rescue on this as he and I have communicated on it recently. Tag @TORQUED455.

    But rest assured my bypass valve has been stuck open when I have had low oil pressure at startup issues. Maybe that somehow combined with the WIX filter drain back issues and I interpreted it wrongly. Since I just popped it closed and replaced the filter each time.

    I have also had a stuck piston on the pressure relief valve but that has not been the case the last two times this happened.
     
  6. TORQUED455

    TORQUED455 Well-Known Member

    Chris, you have a lot going on there. I don't think you're missing anything, and I'm glad someone actually took the time to confirm an empty filter. I'd keep changing your oil and filter, maybe try another brand filter. Don't sell yourself short, you know what you're doing.
     
  7. inverse121

    inverse121 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Bob.
    I’m not sure if you can see it in the photo above, but the red drain back valve has clearly failed. It “drooped” for lack of a better description.

    I filled the filter, turned it sideways and it drained out the side holes. I turned it upside down with a plugged nipple and it poured out the side holes. This filter was good when I installed it roughly 300 miles ago and I had pressure within seconds of startup.
     
    Dadrider likes this.
  8. TORQUED455

    TORQUED455 Well-Known Member

    Do an autopsy on the filter.
     
  9. inverse121

    inverse121 Well-Known Member

    I ordered an oil filter cutter. Should be here this weekend.
     
  10. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    OK, I get it now. My mistake.

    A stuck-open bypass valve on the oil filter adapter (GM) or in the oil filter itself (Ford/Mopar) would cause STARTUP oil pressure problems as it would allow the engine oil galleries and a sideways-mounted oil filter to drain back even if there was an anti-drainback valve in the oil filter itself. Then the engine has to run long enough to re-fill the oil filter and the oil galleries before any meaningful oil pressure is being reported on the gauge.

    I've seen bypass valves on the oil filter adapter blocked-open by bits of debris. I suppose there could be problems with the spring, or the phenolic disc could be cracked/chipped, too.
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The bypass valve is a spring loaded disc on the filter cover. It's on top in the photo below.

    http://taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1512A

    I have occasionally found that disc cocked sideways. Not sure what causes that, but I was always able to re seat it with a small screwdriver. It hasn't happened with my current engine, but I remember it happening on my 1st Buick Skylark 350. Maybe that spring gets weak over time, causing the valve to unseat? Not sure.
     
  12. inverse121

    inverse121 Well-Known Member

    so here we have it. I cut the filter apart

    IMG_4342.jpeg IMG_4343.jpeg IMG_4344.jpeg
    Continued below. It only let me upload 3.
     
  13. inverse121

    inverse121 Well-Known Member

    The drain back valve had dropped.
    IMG_4345.jpeg
    I pushed it up i to place to show the gap below it but I am not sure what would help it return to that position if it dropped while running.
    IMG_4346.jpeg
    experts?
     
    TORQUED455 likes this.
  14. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    I cut one apart today as well and it looked just like the one you have there. I also cut the ends off the element and down the side to spread it out flat. Only real way to see whats in the pleats
     
  15. hwprouty

    hwprouty Platinum Level Contributor

    I'm impressed with the KP Engineering piece, and will be ordering another from Steve for my F100.

    Very primitive test here, and I realize this....

    Oil and filter on my '71 350 had been in the pan for a longgg time, maybe 10 years? Castrol 10/40 and a fram PH-25. O miles driven, maybe one hour between moving the Skylark or warming it up occasionally.

    Bit of fuel in the float bowl vent, fired right up, fast idle oil pressure after hitting temp was maybe 32?

    Drained oil, installed the KP filter and fresh Castrol 10/40, fired up and idled at temp @ just under 50psi... still held that psi after idling for 10 minutes..

    I'm happy enough that all my older rigs are getting KP stuff!
     
  16. hwprouty

    hwprouty Platinum Level Contributor

    Another K & P filter test. Switched the Wix on the 390 in the shop truck with the K & P unit, same oil in the pan. Gained almost 20 lbs gauge pressure...
     
    FLGS400 likes this.
  17. Storm1

    Storm1 Silver Level contributor

    Just did mine and drainback looks like a fail. I had one new one left I guess Ill give it a try. Its Probably 3-4 years old. Hopefully next year when I pull it, its looks better.

    If not, Hopefully someone finds a decent alternative by then!

    One thing though, I didn't lose any pressure with the old filter. Still getting between 70-80 on cold startup, never less than 20 hot in gear at a stop, and plenty as the rpm's go up.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 480 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    I change the oil in my car last week and bought the NAPA gold 1258 which is made by wicks, the Car Took Way too long to build pressure, So I put the old PF 24 oil filter back on instant oil, pressure, wicks filters are junk and of story………
     
  19. Aaron65

    Aaron65 Well-Known Member

    I noticed this on my 300 several years ago. Using a Wix or Wix-built filter, it would take six seconds to show oil pressure on my gauge. It was the same on my Slant Six Dart. I switched to an STP filter (which I'm sure is not something anyone has ever said on purpose up to now), and it only takes two seconds to show pressure, so that's what I've been using on those two cars ever since.
     
    RoseBud68 likes this.
  20. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    On cold start after the Riv has been setting (for longer than Id like to admit) I'll pop off the air cleaner lid and prime the float bowl. One crank and she fires off and thats where the delay in OP shows up. Thinking if I crank the engine and let the fuel pump pull fuel up to the carb that would give the filter time to fill and avoid this cold start rattle.
     

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