I am finally getting serious about getting into racing and was wondering at what point race brakes were needed. I plan on running in the low tens and my 2900lb car currently has a set of drums.
Herb I'm a big fan of good brakes you are at a point were if you can afford them I would buy them. 1200 dollars worth of brakes is less money than a 8000 dollar funeral.
I would go for the rear if I could not afford all four and was upgrading . At the speeds you are looking for please upgrade as soon as you can . Too much front brake will give a BAD ride on the stopping part.
I have front Wilwood brakes they work great and just stock drums....I have never had a problem slowing down but rear disc's is on my short list....But I have gone:error: over 130 mph with 4- drums aluiminum ! not a good idea....
I know what you mean about 4 drums . Back in the day I ran a 55 Chev that hit the traps around 120-125 with stock 55 Chev brakes . That was an experience trying to stop that 3300 lbs . Talk about brake fade . and sand traps .
Low tens sounds like you're more than ready for at least some type of disk brakes. If not race type, then at least stock ones. Since you're starting from scratch, I suggest you go for the race type. Probably not much more expensive than a stock conversion using new parts. If only two, you must swap the front ones (majority of the stopping power, more important to prevent lock-up on fronts than rears). Keep in mind that the primary benefits of disks over drums (at least when American OEMs started using them) was/is considerably less fade (which generally means you stop in a shorter distance) and they're less prone to lock-up (and subsequent loss of control). That's my 2-cents worth, anyway.
Don't forget that the size of the tire contact patch also plays a big part in the effectiveness of the brakes. If you are going to run 3-1/2" wide fronts and 12" wide rears, you cannot expect the front brakes to still do 70% of the work when slowing the car down from 120 mph or more. Plan on using some form of manual brake adjustment valve with the new disc brake set-up, and trying different settings until you find out what works best with your car. Just remember, the life you save may be your own! Later, Randy
We Put Willwood discs on the front this year and the car can actually make the first turn off now. Still using drums in the rear with a residual valve, adjustable proportioning valve and a Corvette style deep bore M\C
Master Power Brake has a upgrade drum kit for the rear , 11" x 2" which gives much more contact area than stock drum . They claim it gives as much stopping power as disc . I am going to upgrade to that .
RAMKAT2 Don't forget that the size of the tire contact patch also plays a big part in the effectiveness of the brakes. If you are going to run 3-1/2" wide fronts and 12" wide rears, you cannot expect the front brakes to still do 70% of the work when slowing the car down from 120 mph or more. Plan on using some form of manual brake adjustment valve with the new disc brake set-up, and trying different settings until you find out what works best with your car. Just remember, the life you save may be your own! Later, Randy Randy is exactly right!! With non std tire size, you must use new math. The same equations don't apply with the contact patch sizes that Randy spoke about. Talk to a PRO chassis builder and you'll see what I mean. On a street or road race car, the front brakes are of major importance. On a drag car with a very small contact patch in front and a large contact patch in the rear, you actually need more stopping power in the rear to equilize the force. I know it sounds "backwards" from the things we were taught about cars. but believe me it's true. All true "drag cars" that I know of personally, (including mine) run the brake master "backwards" as opposed to "conventional" plumbing. Meaning that the front line (with more brake bias) now runs to the rear wheels and the rear line goes to the front. Even the instructions on my Willwood brakes tell me to do it this way for drag racing installations. I also have proportioning valves in place to help equalize and fine tune the brake bias. True, you NEVER want to over power the rear brakes, but with the contact patch sizes involved and the massive weight transfer under hard de-acceleration, you need to pay much more attention to the rear brakes. Don't get me wrong, front brakes are still very important, but I'm just saying that you should maintain a good proportion between the two, and to do that you need to "step up" the rear brakes also!! Steve
Improved brakes are a must. When I built my car I used Aerospace on the front and aluminum drums on the rear. It worked well but after a couple of years I put the Aerospace on the rear also and switched to their master cylinder. I run nearly 130mph and can make the first turn-off at most any strip. I like making the first turn-off as it saves heating up everything so much driving back. Good brakes will be the first thing I put on any car from now on. Jim N.
Its funny, but back in the early 70's we would joke about GM "A" body cars. The joke was at speeds over 100 if you hit the brakes you went faster!!! But really stopping the car is more important the making it go... My GN has stock front calipers with light weight rotors and performance pads, rear have the larger S-10 pick up rear wheel cylinders and all four brake shoes are secondary shoes. It ran 140.11 mph and stopping was never a issue. I would at least upgrade your brakes to something equal to mine.
Lots of good info, here. Thanks to all of you experienced racers who provided input. I really lerned something here (and I'm not even the guy who was asking). Thanks again.
Herb, you seem like a pretty smart guy. I think you knew when you started this thread where you were going to end up. It's a good subject though and I think it's helpful to talk about important stuff like this. :TU: Back in the mid 90's, I went with Wilwoods on all four corners and never looked back. It was money well spent.
Doug you are very right about this thread needing to happen . Many times money and effort are put into making a car fast with little to no thought about upgrading braking . In the distant past I was guilty of that also . My next big project is a 41 Willys with a supercharged 392 Hemi . YES it will have Wilwood on all four corners with their master cylinder and an adjustable proportion valve . sorry for the highjack , just had to say this .
