What is This Black Box Thing?

Discussion in 'The Mixing shop.' started by FLGS400, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. FLGS400

    FLGS400 Gold Level Contributor

    I finally took my 69 GS400 for a drive yesterday and put some fresh fuel in it. It finally stopped raining for a few days!

    While the car handles and drives nice, it runs kinda crappy, like it's got a miss and little power. It is pretty consistent, but does not stall at stops or anything. I just rerouted the plug wires and confirmed that I have the firing order correct, along with replacing the choke pulloff. I stopped and put some fresh gas in it, but that didn't help. It was really low anyway. When I returned home, I popped the hood and started looking around. Took some non-flammable brake parts cleaner and started spraying around the vacuum lines. Found the base gasket on the Quadrajet to be a vacuum leak issue, but ran out of time to attempt any repair. My plan is to replace that gasket with one of the 1/4" thick ones that I've always used on all of my previous Quadrajets, and see if there is any improvement.

    Part of this plan will be to replace all of the vacuum lines too, as some look pretty old. I'll have to look up the sizes in my factory manual and by a few feet of each, unless someone knows all of the needed sizes off the top of their head and feels like sharing...

    While following the vacuum advance line, I found it goes into a fenderwell mounted black box that says "Dana" on it (see pictures). It runs from there to a source. Can anyone tell me what this is, what it does, and what would happen if I by-pass it?

    Thanks, this site is great!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    A switch, but no idea for what purpose.

    Manifold or ported vacuum source?
    And what is the other hose connected to?
    Trace that brown wire coming off it and see where that takes you.
     
  3. rkammer

    rkammer Gold Level Contributor

    I'll take a stab that it's an aftermarket switch that takes the 3rd gear switch from the transmission and tells the box when to switch the vacuum advance from ported vacuum to manifold vacuum.
     
  4. FLGS400

    FLGS400 Gold Level Contributor

    I'll have to look tonight when I get home

    I Googled this in a bunch of ways and couldn't find anything...

    Thanks for the quick replies!
     
  5. gs66

    gs66 Silver Level contributor

    Is it some piece of a cruise control?
     
    Mark Demko likes this.
  6. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    does it say DANA on the logo in the red circle?


    20200920_133940.jpg


    I see the same logo on this DANA speed control box:

    ky-nos-speedostat-cruise-control-complete-the-1947-present.jpg
     
  7. Max Damage

    Max Damage I'm working on it!

    Dana made a lot of stuff...
     
  8. 2manybuicks

    2manybuicks Founders Club Member

    What are the all the other letters and numbers on the top?
     
  9. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    the vacuum hose from the DANA box splits at the junction in the red circle
    where do both lines end up?

    on the other side of the engine, or maybe at the carb?
    and what about the line that runs down from that vacuum valve?

    edit:
    so the small vacuum line coming from the engine to the junction in the red circle is connected to the vacuum advance at the carb?

    vac-1.jpg
    vac-2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  10. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    is there/was there a vacuum gauge in the dash?

    it looks like on the DANA box it says CARB and DASH

    20200920_133940.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  11. 2manybuicks

    2manybuicks Founders Club Member

    There is something under the Dana logo too.
     
  12. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    It isn't stock. More important, is your vacuum advance working? Lots of guys overlook the most basic things. Put a timing light on the engine and check the timing.
     
  13. FLGS400

    FLGS400 Gold Level Contributor

    After looking it all over tonight, I have determined that it is some kind of system that recirculates the PCV gases into the exhaust system. The "carb" vacuum line was teed into the main vacuum port at the back of the carb, which I'm pretty sure is manifold vacuum. The other end was teed into one end of that metal valve, then was teed into the vacuum advance and ultimately connected into the vacuum switch on the front drivers side of the intake manifold (ported possibly?). The valve itself was teed into the PCV line (between the carb and PCV valve). The other end used to go to the exhaust system. It looks as though when the TA downpipes were installed, it was left disconnected and it's just hanging there. There is a gray wire from that box, that went to the positive side of the coil.

    I disconnected the vacuum lines, the line that was teed into the PCV line, and the wire connected to the coil. Then I rerouted the vacuum lines to the locations shown in my chassis manual for the 400 and 430 motors, and plugged off the tee in the PCV hose and tee in the main vacuum line. After snugging up the carb bolts a little bit, and trimming up some split ends on 4 or 5 vacuum lines, it seems to run a little better. I still need to replace the carb base gasket, as there is still a vacuum leak there. Tomorrow I'll order the base gasket, a new PCV valve grommet, PCV hose, and few feet of 1/4" 3/16" and 3/8" vacuum hose to replace the old stuff that is there now. Some of the hoses are either original or close to it. I already have a new PCV valve to put in it.

    After I get all the vacuum issues fixed, I'll do as Larry suggested and put my timing light on it to see where it's at and see if the vacuum advance works.

    Interestingly enough, I started looking through some documentation that was provided with the car (Thanks Dude!). There was a receipt from a machine shop for the motor rebuild in 1993, at 80,000 miles, and a receipt and cam spec card from 1994. Apparently a Kenny Bell, grind number 24 cam (for a 455) was installed with lifters from Kenny Bell, too.

    Attached are some pictures that I took, before I made the changes. Most of them are where the tee connections were. I thought the cam card was really interesting too, so I included it.
     

    Attached Files:

    TrunkMonkey likes this.
  14. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    I see 2 things you need to fix. The fuel line that's severely kinked, and the throttle cable at the bracket. The line, you need a new one. The cable you can fix with 2 small zip ties. You put them in an "X" pattern, going behind the bracket and across the front. That's assuming the tabs aren't broken. that whole Dana deal, I'd just toss!
     
  15. FLGS400

    FLGS400 Gold Level Contributor

    That's the plan! I ordered the replacement fuel line a couple weeks ago and just received a notification today that it shipped. Thanks for pointing out the throttle cable problem, I didn't notice that and will either fix it like you suggested or replace it. I'll take care of those when I replace the base gasket.
     
  16. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    still a few questions about the DANA box:

    what is written in the green circle?

    hwrw.jpg

    The vacuum line with the red arrow pointing at it
    it's coming from the port on the DANA box that says DASH, right?

    there is a junction, where is the red-stripe line with the green arrow running to?

    it looks like it's disappearing into the firewall, possibly to the dashboard?

    20200921_195040.jpg
     
  17. FLGS400

    FLGS400 Gold Level Contributor

    After blowing the photo up on my phone, it looks like that says "P.C. DIV."

    The answer to all is yes. I don't exactly remember where in the dash the red striped hose goes to. It may be for the AC controls. When I was fixing all the dash issues and installing the new radio and speakers, I noticed that there was a group of vacuum lines that went into the door too. I just assumed that they went to the power lock actuators and didn't investigate any further.

    On another note, I was looking for a new PCV valve grommet and found about 3 or 4 different sizes listed. Does anyone know what the correct one, or best one to use in the 400 intake is? I would measure it, but at the moment it is about 50-miles away.

    Thanks for all the input!
     
  18. FLGS400

    FLGS400 Gold Level Contributor

    Never mind... I found one of Larry's posts on another thread that identified it.
     
  19. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    Ok...I'm looking at this thing more, now. I mean, who cares what the Dana thing does, it's crap, you don't need it. But you do need things hooked up right. The PCV hose on your car is kind of rare and desirable to a concours guy. I'd disconnect where the T is and just get a straight connector for that hose. The golf tee would hook to the air cleaner doors. That metal tee in that line is a hard to find piece and correct, too. The ported vacuum switch in the manifold should have 3 nipples, one should go to the dist. You can bypass or defeat that deal, too. There would be vac lines going through the firewall for AC if you have it. The vac modulator line should go straight into the manifold. That white T should be on the line coming off the back of the carb. Dude who did the car clearly liked his T's. Anyways, it's some stuff for you to think about today! I see.....the line with the red arrow, I think that should go to the cannister.
     
    TrunkMonkey likes this.
  20. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    the original question was about "the Dana thing":

    so someone is caring and even decided to open a thread about it...
    i still want to find out more about it :)
     
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