What do you say? posted it or not

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Opa, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    I have alot of pictures with comments from JW building up my new 475 engine.
    I look at them often, cause its looking at artwork for me!

    Would anybody be interested if I posted this buildup with pictures etc?
    I hope there not copyrighted! :puzzled:
     
  2. rack-attack

    rack-attack Well-Known Member

    post it up:TU:

    me wanna see:3gears:
     
  3. Woodsters

    Woodsters Woodster

    Oh yeah, I'd be interested! Post the build with pics!
     
  4. Ken Mild

    Ken Mild King of 18 Year Resto's

    Hell yes!
     
  5. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    It would be good to ask Jim first. If he's fine with it we'd love to see the info.

    Devon
     
  6. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Sure, go ahead Robert..

    JW
     
  7. crankshaft

    crankshaft Well-Known Member

    I would like to see it :)
     
  8. RAMKAT2

    RAMKAT2 Randy

    Lets see some pics!!!!!!!!
     
  9. rex362

    rex362 paint clear and drive

    Opa....stop teasing us
     
  10. Tyler Northcutt

    Tyler Northcutt Just an old pile of parts

  11. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    Well here we go:
    I was in need of a more powerfull engine for our racecar.

    I had some troubles getting the right engine I needed, and finally decided to have JW build me an engine.

    JW had a very slightly used shortblock from a 494 race (800+HP) motor that
    a friend of his sold to him a couple a couple years ago.
    The billet rods in that shortblock were allready sold.
    JW and me talked about it and we decided it would be a possible candidate to use for my engine buildup.

    JW would clean up the engine and would go over it to check everything.
    And we would go from there.
    It is a race piece, filled with hardblock in water jackets, and it does have a girdle on it.
    This block is as good as Buick factory blocks get, as it was a select casting.
    The former owner bought several engines took them apart and choose the one with the best casting and with the thickest cylinder walls.
    It has made 800 HP in the past, and lived, and really was never raced that much.

    Our goal is to build a pumpgas engine that would take our all steel except the hood GS"X" well in to the 10s
    with a girdled/filled block, 350 cfm cylinder heads, 11-1 compression- making 650-675 HP.
    Robert (Opa) had allready bought some parts that we will be using for this buildup .
    Some of these parts are: TA SP2A intake, STAGE1 Track Eliminator Heads, TA 1.6 Roller Rockers, 950CFM Race Carb, MSD Pro Billet Distributor, Taylor 8MM spark plug cables, TA valvecovers, SFI flexplate etc

    Because of either how this block was line bored from the factory, or how previous machine work was done to it, this block is big in the main housings, at the parting line(where the cap goes on the block) and that cannot be fixed.
    What that causes is a bleed off of oil pressure at the crank.
    That's bad news for the rods. But there is a way around this.

    What that means is that to sucessfully use this block, we would
    have to use an external oil pump. This is because we cannot keep the
    rods alive unless we throw a massive amount of oil volume and pressure
    at the crank. This is one of the secrets to keeping the powerful Buick
    motors alive, regardless of how good the block is. I can, with a perfect
    block, get away with up to 700 HP with a good stock type oil pump, but
    beyond 700 HP, and in this case, with this block, we have to use an
    external oil pump setup that can pump massive volumes of oil into the
    block. We will have to run oil pressures up in the 70-90psi range. With
    the big bearing clearances that this block will have. We also have to
    drill extra holes in the main bearing upper shells, and use the grooves
    that are already in this block That's not possible with the factory type
    oil pump.

    I'm confident that this setup will in fact work, and live a long life,
    as this is exaclty how it was set up, and I even have the same pump, oil
    pan, belt drives, acessory pully ect.

    Advantages

    a.. Superior reliablity with a filled, girdled block.
    b.. Excellent oiling to the bottom end.
    c. Ability to build up to 750 HP in the future. Up to 900 HP if you install a billet crankshaft in the future.

    So lets get started:

    This one was a lot of clean up, but it's getting close now.. 48 hours ago it was a complete, used shortblock.. Dirty, painted, oily..

    I still have to pull the compression o-rings out of the decks, and resurface them, and then we will wash it up again, and put it together, and look at that main cap fit issue I talked about earlier ..
    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  12. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    Here are some more block pictures.. I washed it up and put it together for inspection.

    [​IMG]


    I will have to talk to my Machinist, as this block won't work with the crank ground at the size it is now... The crank is ground to the smallest spec size, but the housings on this block are machined to the high side of the spec.. what that causes is the main clearance to be too big. We need to get the main housings down to near the bottom of the acceptable spec, to bring the main bearing clearance back into the range we are going to be after on this build. I also have some concerns with out of round on #4 main..

    To fix this, what has to be done is the main caps are machined on the bottom, thus making the housing bore smaller, and then it is brought back to spec size with a big hone. This is a normal procedure we do all the time. But what complicates it is the girdle.. the girlde is actually preloading the block by about 5 thousandths, meaning when you set the girlde on the main caps, you can get a feeler gauge in between the girlde and the oil pan rail. This preload will go away when the main caps are shortened by a few thousands, so to make that up, the face of the grilde had to be machined, the same amount as is taken off the caps.

    What I am saying is it's a more complex process.. not as bad as putting one on from scratch, but it will take a bit of time.

    You can see that the upper part of the main housing has a slot in it.. this was done previously, and allows us to put a couple more oil holes in the bearings for improved main oiling.. and is something everyone has been doing to these 650+ HP engines for the last 8-10 years. It's a proven modification that is already done on this block.

    As I mention, the cylinder walls are about 3/4 filled with hard block, to re-inforce them.
    We will be boring it to 4.375, so it will actually be a 469 cubic inch motor if we can use this crank you supplied (it's still be checked). It appears that your crank just had the rod journal turned to 2.200, without changing the stroke. If there is something wrong with this crank, and I have to do another, then I will have my guy offset grind the new crank for an additional .050 stroke, at which point it would be a 475ci engine.

    [​IMG]
    What I am pointing to in the above picture is the passage where the water goes into the block normally. But as you can see, it's full of hardblock there now.

    The picture below is the hole in the side of the block where the water will enter it now.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    Water will enter here on both sides of the block, via fittings and drilling and tapping the special bosses that are already in your TA timing cover, that are just for this purpose.
    You can see these hoses on George Sweesy's engine below.. They are the blue ones.. and yours will be exactly like this.
    That engine made 870 HP and 765 torque, and the intake and carbs on it were actually on the block we are talking about using for your engine originally.
    [​IMG]

    Here's those casing bosses, in this new TA timing cover.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  14. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    Here is a picture of the water jacket filler, or hardblock as it's called.. it's about 2 1/2 inches below the deck, and allows substantial coolant around the top of the cylinders, which is good, and will help keeping this thing cool. Picture is a little blurry, but you can see it in the bottom of the oval hole below.
    [​IMG]


    Here are some other features of this block..
    [​IMG]
    It has been counter bored behind the cam, to accept a bronze thrust washer between the cam and the block, this prevents the cam from eating into the block, which can happen when you run high oil pressures, like we will in this setup...
    It also has been cut for compression o-rings, which we won't be using, but could be used in the future should you decide to increase the compression, or put some kind of mild forced induction on the engine. I have pulled the wires out for now. A .020 thick wire goes in that groove,and is used with dead soft copper head gaskets, to seal high cylinder pressures.
    [​IMG]

    It also has been drilled for the 4 extra head bolts, that your alumium heads allow... What I mean by that is the extra holes are drilled from TA, but not all the way thru the casting.. Now on a normal build with a block that is not already drilled and tapped for these bolts, and at this compression level, I wouldn't use them.
    But since we have the holes in the block,we might as well use them, and help out the cylinder sealing with the extra bolts.. plus I have to plug the holes anyway, as they go into the water jackets. Might as well plug them with the extra bolts.

    I am pointing to 2 of the 4 holes on this side of the block.
    [​IMG]

    The only thing I don't really care for in this block, is they cut a notch out of the bellhousing, as it ran a by-pass line which goes to the rear of the main galley on the passenger side.. We will do this also, but I do it much cleaner with a hole drilled in the bellhousing on the driver side, and then a braided stainless line that runs into the back of the block. Nothing I can do about his notch, and it won't hurt anything, and is really not visible when it's in the car. No comprimise of strength or any other worries.
    [​IMG]


    I will be drilling the hole here... to run the line thru.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  15. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    The crank Robert (Opa) supplied was not used due to issues with the machinework a previous shop had done to it.

    So JW decided to use another crank, it was offset grind for an additional .050 stroke, at which point it would be a 475ci engine.
    We also needed to have some custom pistons made for this engine.
    These custom pistons were orderd at Diamond pistons.
    This was the first Diamond pistoned engine JW build.

    This is a small list of parts that was orderd or machinework that was done also.
    - Custom Forged Piston- Buick 475CI combo with pins and locks
    - File Fit Plasma Moly Piston Ring set- 4.375 bore
    - Eagle H-Beam Con rod, 475 CI combo
    - Bore and Hone engine with Sunnen equipment
    - Set Main and Rod bearing clearances
    - Magnaflux crankshaft
    - Full competition Porting for TA Stage 1 cylinder heads- TE version- with chamber work
    -Competition valve job
    -Backcut valves
    -400/430/455 Main bearing Set
    - Con rod bearings- P series BBC
    -TA 308S camshaft
    - Polished electric Meziere Water pump
    - SFI approved ATI Super Damper, Steel shell, 3 ring design,External balance
    - NGK race plugs- heat range 8, TA alum head
    - Solid Race Lifters
    And more that I forgot to mention.

    Here a some pictures of the Custom made Diamond Forged Pistons:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    Diamond Forged Pistons and Eagle H-beam rod
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    MSD Pro Billet Distributor:
    [​IMG]

    SFI Heavy Duty Flexplate:
    [​IMG]

    TA SP2A Intake:
    [​IMG]

    TA 1.6 ratio roller rockers:
    [​IMG]

    950CFM Race Carb
    [​IMG]


    TA STAGE1 Track Eliminator Heads:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  17. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    And JW surprised me on my birthday last year during the buildup with these pictures:
    He had the heads and intake polished (thats a TSP exclusive service).

    I got a Big Smile on my face watching these pictures! :beer

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

    Most parts were in the house in a couple of weeks, the only thing what took a long time and didn't make it for the Dynosession was the electric waterpump.

    So it was buildup for the Dynosession using a normal waterpump.

    Here some more buildup pictures:

    (Picture below)File fit rings are in the respective cylinders, waiting to be put on the pistons during assembly.. each one is specific to the cylinder, so it's the easiest way to keep track of which hole they go in.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    (below picture)
    My finger is pointing to the oil grooves in the block.. this is done to increase rod bearing oiling on HP engines.
    [​IMG]

    The upper half of the main bearing shells are drilled for the xtra oil holes..
    [​IMG]

    And then those holes are champhered.
    [​IMG]

    And you can see how they line up in the engine.
    [​IMG]

    How the bearing fits on the front cam bearing..
    [​IMG]


    And now with the crank installed..
    [​IMG]






    Here is the 3 piece torrington bearing, used between the back of the cam, and the block. You can see how the back of the cam was machined.. .110 was machine to allow space for the bearing, and this would have to be done to any cam, should you ever want to change it.
    [​IMG]




    You can see the special front cam bearing (below picture), and the recess in the block behind the cam, for the bearing..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    (below picture) Threaded plugs installed in the front of the oil galleys.
    [​IMG]

    (below picture) You see the RH one is very thin.. otherwise you will restrict oil flow to the mains.. not good!
    [​IMG]

    (below picture) Better shot of the one of a kind custom made bronze cam bearing.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

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    Here I am degreeing the cam..
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    After degreeing the cam, we had to do a test fit of the cylinder head, to check valve clearance.
    [​IMG]



    It actually just barely touched the clay, but in this pic you can see where the valves are in relation to the reliefs.. I had to check the relief location in the pistons, since this was the first set of Diamond pistons I had used.. and the reliefs are positioned correctly..
    [​IMG]


    By sectioning the clay, I can see exactly where they are.. Plenty of room..
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Opa

    Opa Torque/a 8 piston figure

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