"Well, we could always add another carb"...

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Jim Weise, Jul 25, 2004.

  1. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Famous last words..
     

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  2. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    seems to work...

    Come on out to the BPG nats, and see if we can get a 3140 lbs tube chassis GS in the low nines... weather permiting..

    Did exactly what a tunnel ram/ dual dommie setup should do..

    raised the torque peak and spread out the HP and TQ curves..

    Up 30 ft lbs and at some rpm levels.. 40 HP..

    Average from 5400-6800 up 30 lbs and 35 HP over the single 4..

    And it still idles at 900 rpm... too funny..

    Here are the numbers..
     

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  3. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    And a BIG thanks to Dave Mongeon for loaning us the manifold..


    now if I did not still have the single 4 cam in it... oh well..

    JW
     
  4. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    add another carb? Very nice but What caught my eye was what looks like tapped holes for a Fogger/Direct Port nitrous setup?
    Awsome power #'s, especially since its all it before 7000.
     
  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Actually, it is drilled for Dave's Alky injection.. but I suppose I guy could run a fogger, if he wanted to drive over the crank..

    don't know how much more we can push this stock block.. holding up so far, but at this level, there is no guarantee against "rubble in the oil pan"

    JW
     
  6. Jeff Kitchen

    Jeff Kitchen Well-Known Member

    Jim,

    Nice set-up. What first caught my eye was how TALL it is. Those are some long runners.

    What I also noticed was the RPM's on the dyno sheet. Maybe you have an explanation for this. It seems that about every Buick motor I've seen dyno sheets on that make over about 600 hp have the peak HP and TQ at about the same RPM's. My motor is no special example, but I'm making a little over 650 HP at around 6200 and my TQ peak is around 4900. Maybe my motor's off somewhere, but those RPM's seem to be common. You're making over 800 HP at around the same RPM spread. Hmmmmmm. I've always thought that the heads were limiting the HP capabilities in the Buicks (besides block strength).

    Any thoughts?

    Have fun.
     
  7. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    I like the X stripe around the room! Oh yeah, awsome motor too!!
     
  8. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482


    Jeff,

    Nothing wrong with your motor, as far as the rpm ranges go. This thing, with a single 4 on it, peaked at 6200 in HP, and 4900 in torque.

    Just smaller numbers than it has now.. and the curve "laid over" pretty hard after 6400.. it was intake limited after that rpm.

    Yes, the heads still are the limiting factor on the numbers, but as the motor gets bigger (this is a 525) it "tugs" on the heads harder at a lower rpm, and the motor still reaches it's full potential in the 6200-6400 rpm range. Camshaft timing is a big factor here, every race motor I have built or seen a dyno test on, with a cam in the 270-274* intake duration range, with the typical race cam 108 LCS will peak at about the same rpm, the better the head/intake/carb combo is, the higher the numbers will be.

    I found Rick Martinez's motor interesting.. it's a 482 CI deal, with STG 1 Tracks (these are STG 2 Tracks) that we did for him, that are very similar to these heads, and with a 278* intake duration cam, he peaked at 5400 torque and 6900 in the HP.. with a single 4.. and that is a function of the camshaft, raising the rpm range.

    Now, if we wanted to tempt fate, and turn this thing 7200 + thru the traps, a larger roller cam, and a compression bump would make more power, but then engine durability becomes more questionable than it already is..

    Even the more agressive street motors I build peak at 5900 or so, with the torque peak around 4700.. that is as much a function of engine design, and port velocities, as it is anything else.

    And yes, the 8" long runners are pretty wild, but it was one of those "shrug you shoulders" and look at each other and go "let's give it a try" deals..

    thought it might be interesting, since the long runner promotes torque, but the large cross sectional area is good for HP.. this is a big manifold for sure..

    We will see how it works in the car, and possibly build a smaller one maybe in the future, and compare. There is not a ton of info out there on this type of motor, with a tunnel ram setup, to go off of..

    JW
     
  9. nice, wish i knew what the numbers mean:Dou: :Do No: :TU:
     
  10. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    Is it typical to see A/F numbers in the high 13-low14 range? I found that best power comes around 12.5 on my car (pump gas). Of course we're talking two totally different types of motors, also.

    Just curious.

    -Bob Cunningham
     
  11. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Yup, we leaned it out 4 jet sizes all the way around in both carbs, from what the 1150's were at when used on this motor in a single 4 combo, and it picked up almost 15 HP.. Dommies like to run toward the lean side, as they are an efficient carb, especially in a dual quad setup.

    This motor has always wanted the A/F's in the 13's..

    But of course, we will play with it at the track..

    Dang 2 carbs.. have to pack a sack lunch to change all the jets..



    JW
     
  12. GS464

    GS464 Hopelessly Addicted

    :laugh: Hey Jim, as tall as that monster is, you probably want to look at handling since you moved the center of gravity so far up in the air!
    :puzzled:
    Seriously, looks killer and those numbers are awesome! I can see it now "But Officer, I CAN see around it!":beer
     
  13. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Not a problem still fits in the hood scoop of the race car it goes in.. and there won't be any street driving.. that's for sure. The motor sits considerable lower in this tube chassis car than in a stock chassis deal.

    This would not be somthing you wanted in a street car, this motor will run between 5400 and 7000.. on the track.

    JW
     
  14. Steve Reynolds

    Steve Reynolds SRE Inc

    I've seen that before!

    Hey Jim,
    How about the similairites???
    Actually I built this one years ago with some of the components purchased from, I think, Daves dad. This unit still has not been bolted on a motor. It belongs to a buddy of mine, and is set up for alcohol injection. It was built for stage one heads.
    He might be interested in selling it, if anyone would have an interest. Steve
     

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  15. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Yup, very similar Steve.. Looks like a nice piece you have there, and a good opportunity for someone that wants to step up their STG 1 race program.



    JW
     
  16. GRNDNL

    GRNDNL Wannabe

    Any thought of trying Fuel Injection, either Mechanical or EFI?.....:confused: That would look really cool with a Bird Catcher on Alky.....

    Is there any HP in Spilt Dominators on something like that?...
     
  17. stagetwo65

    stagetwo65 Wheelie King

    TEMPT FATE??!! Come on!! BE A MAN!! I go thru at 7500 rpm on every pass!! Don't worry about durability. I'm almost at a hundred passes on my motor and the bearings were like new when Scotty checked them last winter, after the first 65 passes. Don't worry about a thing. Everything will be alright. Go ahead. Try it. You'll like it. I promise you it'll run faster if you rev it higher. Really. So go ahead. VROOOOOOMM!! :laugh:
     
  18. 9secStage1

    9secStage1 Worlds Fastest GS Stage 1


    Step up you say???:Brow: hmmm...aah I just got the car back today (below pic) need to get some track time under my belt again before any major changes.

    Very impressive numbers Jim! You worked hard on the car and I guess this is where it pays off. Now you have to get that bad boy on a diet down under 3,000 pounds. Got mine in race ready trim down to 3,050 pounds. Shed that weight and then you may be catching or passing Doug and John, but you may have to come to the far east at Cecil County and race below sea level :grin:

    Unless...alcohol injected?????:shock:

    See ya in a few weeks.
     

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  19. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Spoken by a guy who has boxes full of .... ahem... "expired" race motors..

    Love ya' big guy, but I am gonna pass on your advice...

    :laugh:

    JW
     
  20. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482


    No alky for us.. at least not yet..

    And no one here is counting any chickens yet, looks promising on the dyno, but gotta make it work in the car..

    Converter is out being re-done now.. MORE STALL PLEASE..

    :Brow:

    JW
     

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