Unhappy 4th

Discussion in 'Help From Above' started by Luxus, Jul 4, 2022.

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  1. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

  2. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    Due process means the government/law must give everything "due" a citizen per his/her rights, both civil and criminal, under the constitution, and having an agency, as in this case, the IRS, with a very limited (medical/mental experience/authority/credentials) view of why someone would be on their list, and have them be put on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (emphasis on Criminal) without adjudication, is a violation of civil rights.

    Legislatures, the NRA and ACLU all agreed the rule violated rights, for the reasons stated.

    So, it was correct to reverse the decision.
     
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  3. charlierogers

    charlierogers GSX stage 1 4 speed #149

    forget about ANY gun laws, real criminal's do not follow laws anyway. most of todays mass shootings are done by people with mental problems. and of those most are young men under 25. and if you take a look at them. they all do not fit in and have been literally have been tortured through out most of there school years because they look and act different. being bullied as a kid for years is just as bad as being molested! kids are broken after dealing with it for years. you will get 2 kinds of young adults from this kind of behavior. both are broken in different ways. you become hard and mean and do not take crap from NO ONE. or you let that sadness and anger burn and burn for years until you hate the world and yourself and lash out just like today. the ONLY way to end this is for the system/goverment/people/parents need to go right at the root of the problem and start teaching kids to be kind to one another.
    charlie,
     
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  4. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

    I'm sorry. Im not following what you are saying. The NRA was succesful in getting laws against mentally ill getting guns getting revoked. I dont understand your point.

    For the record, me and most liberals are not anti gun. But we do believe there should be some common sense restrictions. Organizations like the NRA believe any restrictions are bad. Which includes the mentally ill having guns.
     
  5. Max Damage

    Max Damage I'm working on it!

    This largely comes back to Domestic Violence. In almost every case these shooters are perpetrators and/or victims (often both).

    To say "there is nothing we can do" strikes me as lame. Identifying people who are perpetrators of domestic violence and removing there right bear arms would stop 90% of these shootings. Identifying suicidal individuals and getting them help is another PROVEN method. Background checks and red flag laws are just common sense too bad that is sorely lacking.

    It was NOT the second amendments stated purpose to allow everyone to buy and posses any or all the firearms they want.
     
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  6. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member


    I did not say, nor imply that you or anyone was anti gun, specifically wanted to know what you were claiming, so I could understand your POV.

    Here is the ACLU's position (in part), this is "common sense", rather the simply making a claim "the NRA believe any restrictions are bad.

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair

    I think my post/reply was very clear about due process and proper legislation, rather than things that are driven by emotion (given the propensity of many people all across the board, being driven by emotion and not fact or logic).

    And such thing occurs for so many issues/rules/limits etc..
     
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  7. 72STAGE1

    72STAGE1 STAGE 1 & 2

    Sadly no one shot back in a city full of guns…..it takes a good man with a gun to stop a bad man with a gun. I support open carry everywhere.

    God’s peace to the victims.
     
  8. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

    Emotion is on both sides. Its a normal human condition.

    The ACLU are not the law in terms of liberal thought. Yes, they do agree with liberals most of the time. But not always. They really try to be neutral. So i get what they are saying but i disagree with them here.
     
  9. BUICKRAT

    BUICKRAT Got any treats?

    Walter, what do you propose? It cannot be anything that requires the second amendment be redefined.

    Max, actually, it was. If we are to defend ourselves against an oppressive or tyrannical government, we shall be allowed to have whatever is available. That is the purpose of the second amendment. It is not for deer hunting.

    Max, you are right about the domestic violence prior. Firearms sales in almost all states require a background check. You are a no-go if you have a domestic, and I'm from NH, which has minimal restrictions. We still have to pass an FBI/ATF background check to get a firearm. Like the drug trade, or any other illegal substance, the wrong people will still be able to get them.
     
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  10. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

    I do not say the second amendment should be changed. I do believe it has been misinterpreted. I dont believe it was put there to overthrow the government. I do believe it was put there to allow certain states to maintain a militia to put down slave revolts.
     
  11. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

    BTW, media reports the suspect is in custody.
     
  12. GKMoz

    GKMoz Gary / Moz

    " To say "there is nothing we can do" strikes me as lame. Identifying people who are perpetrators of domestic violence and removing there right bear arms would stop 90% of these shootings. Identifying suicidal individuals and getting them help is another PROVEN method. Background checks and red flag laws are just common sense too bad that is sorely lacking."

    All of this is pretty common in dictatorships?..... Like Phil Donahue use to always say? Who has the right to say? look at the latest hearings?
     
  13. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482


    That's good news..

    Let's agree to disagree and move on, shall we gentlemen?

    JW
     
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