True bolt on FI system for a Buick 215, 300, 340, 350

Early V8 engines had very disappointing power outputs and the problem was eventually traced to the intake manifold where it was found that the adjacent cylinders were robbing each other, resulting in power levels lower than would have been expected from six cylinder engines of like bore and stroke. The remedy was to separate the two sides of the 2bbl carbs they were using and this was the origin of the plenum divider. Manifold design has advanced greatly since those days, but the original reason still exists.

Jim

 

Dyno testing has proved that a 1" 4 hole spacer is best with a Q-jet compared to a open spacer. I do not have proof but the 2" 4 hole has been the best for me. I am not sure how things change when it is air only through the throttle body

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=54585&highlight=350+dyno+spacer

 

Hi Guys,

At the urging of one of your members I registered on this site, specifically for this topic.

Allow me to introduce myself, I own a 72 Cutlass with Accel multiport EFI. I've been an Accel dealer for over 6 years and am the host of the "How To" DVD that comes with every kit. I don't know everything and don't profess to but on this topic I have a bit of expertise.

I applaud BobC and Lighteningbird for their info but unfortunately some if it is incorrect.

The Thruster is a fantastic entry level EFI system, but "Bolt On" has little to do with the ECM, it's mostly determined by having an EFI ready manifold available.

With that said, the Accel has all the features you'll need and then some. Some of which you won't need depending on the application. But it is NOT a self learning system as described and you do not need to upgrade to the Pro version for datalogging capability. Self learning systems have a tremendous downside, FAST XFI, Accel and others could make their systems the same but have been hesitant because of potential engine damage when it goes full rich because of a vacuum or header/exhaust leak. Those systems have no floor or ceiling to their calibration. That's a bad thing.

The Accel wideband however increases your datalogging capability and has some other pretty cool features, lean alarm etc.. And it'll datalog up to 16 channels on it's own. Your GN bretheren have been using the Thrusters' bigger brother the Gen 7 for years. Almost all of the Gen 7 software can be accessed into the Thruster, just a different config. Bottom line, when it comes to an EFI system with the best driveabliity in this price range there isn't anything better out there, hands down.

Most companies do a single plane cuz it's easier to machine, all the runners are the same height. Not so on a dual plane. Some people like the aforementioned Rob at Force EFI won't do that conversion for that reason. I have another opinion of Rob but we'll save that for later. I have a Performer RPM on mine. Had a Holley Street Dominator single plane first. The RPM is head and shoulders above the single plane. Both manifolds were modified for EFI by the same people, Wilson Manifolds in Ft Laud. And I have dual widebands, the air/fuel balance between the 2 banks never varies more than a couple of tenths.

TBI's - just remember anybody's TBI will share some of the same inherent manifold deficiencies that a carb and manifold will have, just to a lesser degree. FAST EZ-EFIand Retrotek have a place in the market, but I can't stress enough how much being able to custom tailor your spark curve means to driveablity and cold start, It's significant. And if you want to see the Retroteks limitations just go to EFIuniversity.com and look under "other manufactures", there you'll see some of it's shortcomings, but again in a narrow window it's fine. On the flipside, why spend the better part of 3K on 2 TBI's for a blower setup when you can buy a Thruster and control spark, nitrous, Transbrake, boost control, fans, torque converter lockup and a bunch of other stuff for less money. Plus it'll do sequential which helps in off boost throttle response. Don't understand that one.

I'm here to help and I want your feedback as well. I believe that's the way we make this great hobby even better.

Thanks for this oppotunity.

Mark

 

Mark...Thanks for the information and input. I too believe that the Thruster is the best bang for the buck system available on the market today. A true bolt on system.......It is the closest that the average Buick fella is gonna get until someone manufactures a system specifically for a Buick.

Thanks for the clarification on the datalogging capability cause the tech pamphlets are very vague when it come to this. It is stated that the thruster system is capable but was unclear on how and when it could be used. I was under the impression that the pro version was the only way this was available and your vast experience with the Accel DFI systems proved important on this matter.
I am not trying to mis-represent the system and appreciate clarification on this matter.
One other question that the manual is vague on as well, is the capability of E85 fuel. The manual says the Thruster System is compatible with E85 fuel, but that is all.....it says nothing about E85 with boost (which go hand in hand) or if the Pro Version is required for E85 compatibility with boost. I am almost sure it is a timing and fuel map change as long as the fuel system can deliver but am unsure. Please let me know cause I had wanted to go that direction due to the lack availability of aluminum heads. E85 provides the oportunity to allow higher compression ratios or quite a bit of boost to be used on the street due to it's cooling properties and octane levels.

If you have any more info, please let us know cause I am NOT an expert on this system and am going by the vague and misleading technical pamphlet.

 

Can you please elaborate on why the dual plane is better suited to Multi Port EFI?

 

Correction, dads setup was 3 inches of spacer, not 2. It was intake manifold, 1 inch open spacer, a 2 inch 4 hole spacer then the carb.

Go for milling it down, your right you never know you may pick up, will never know until you try. Being its aluminum if it turns out that it hurts performance you can always weld a piece of aluminum back in to build the divider back up.

 

If you do mill the divider, make sure you knife edge the center so it lets the air split the divider easier.

 

If a dual plane is better for your application then it doesn't matter if it's EFI'd or carbureted, if it's the best then it's the best. Plus with EFI you automatically will flow anywhere from 8-10% more air on average. No fuel in it till the very end. On some applications that will make it more on par with a single plane but with the enhanced driveability of a dual plane.

Lighteningbird- The Thruster will pretty much do whatever, gas or E85. Don't get too hung up on this. The ECM doesn't have a clue what fuel your running, it will pulse the injector however long it needs to, period. That is also my arguement for brands of engines the ECM is installed on. It (the ECM) doesn't know what it's controlling. It will just try to achieve whatever the desired air/fuel ratio is. I get a kick out of people who say "well it's not for a Buick or Olds etc." It doesn't know what make it's controlling, it just does what it's programmed to do.

You can use the nitrous maps for alternative fuel/spark. The Thruster will do 2, the Gen 7 will do 4, I believe the new Gen 8 will do 6. But you can adapt almost everything to the Thruster that you can the Gen 7. Awesome system, I'l put it against anything in it's class, even higher dollar stuff.

Keep the questions coming, I'm happy to help.

Mark

 

You can try that, but I would recommend bullnosing it instead. Seems to work for the Wilson manifold guys and on my application.

 

2....does that mean two stages or two alternate fuel maps?

When you say bullnosing, do you mean cutting it flush? I am lost, I was thinking of hacking the whole thing out, since it really will do nothing but take up space in the plenum. Since it's just air flowing in the intake, it shouldn't really matter.
Do to previous discussions, I had decided to leave it in there until I could dyno test what cutting it out would effect in the powerband.

 

Bull nose means smoothly rounded.

 

Exactly.

You'll have 2 fuel and 2 spark maps available with the Thruster. You can use them with nitrous or without, not both. In other words you have 2 not 4.

 

will any of these systems have a normal ALDL plugin so I could use a scanner from work or are they all hooked up to laptops

 

As far as know, aftermarket EFI systems do not have ALDL plugs since it is only a requirement for mass produced factory vehicles and not aftermarket parts.

 

How is this coming along?

 

I am piecing it together. I should have an update in about a week. I have kinda run into something that is sucking up my extra cash right now. (BABY)....... Things are going a little slow. I'll have something by next week with pics.

 

Keep us posted. If you need help let me know.

 

Well right now Summit has all my EFI parts on backorder. I live in Australia and send it here via APO since I am military. That saves tons of money, downfall time and the inability to track shipments. It's looking like 5 March for shipping, but I've had Summit leave things on backorder for 6 months and finally drop it.

If this fails I think Supreme EFI sells Accel Thruster parts....not sure, but I believe he mentioned he has worked with many in the past.

 

I'm a dealer, I did their How-To DVD. Let me know if you need help.

Mark

 

OK, after a nice chat w/ Summit, parts shipped yesterday. Speaking of How To video, do you have a link to the video? The paper instruction of the distributor alignment for dual sync operation, makes my head hurt?

Dallas