That annoying tick.

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Briz, Sep 17, 2022.

  1. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    I've done a couple chevy cam swaps same deal gets warm lifters sound terrible,...runs fine just noisy
     
    Buickpwrdolds likes this.
  2. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    Do the heads use guides?
     
  3. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    I would assume they do. Their aluminum and my guess would be brass guides. They are brand new.
     
  4. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    Sorry - I meant pushrod guides like Chevy uses. They can be noisy.
     
  5. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Platinum Level Contributor

    Wow, what a mess....sorry to read about the trouble. I'm still running my old iron big-ports...have a spare set in case of trouble but thankfully I've had none. Only a couple of long-range trips on them, no racing or high-stress. I hope to get my DeWitt replacement soon, no waterless blah blah for me.
     
    Briz likes this.
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Can you hear the tick from behind the wheel with the hood closed? That is the question I always ask first.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
  7. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Have not had the hood back on since the latest attempt to remedy the situation. I've stood next to a Harley idling and the amount of mechanical noise coming from that engine made me think there had to be something wrong with it and the rider said nope, thats just how they sound. Maybe thats what I have to learn to accept
     
    Waterboy likes this.
  8. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    I've read that the noise from the exhaust valves closing is much more prevalent with aluminum heads and headers vs. Iron heads and manifolds.
     
  9. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Your gonna like the Dewitt unit. So impressed with the one in the Riv I purchased a custom made unit for the Wildcat and paid about 500$ more. Can't put a price on quality parts.
     
  10. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    From JW (I think):
    "Edelbrock heads require isky adjustable guideplates, and careful setup to get the valve train to be decently quiet. Or you get to listen to your new engine rattle like a sewing machine. Especially with the stock valve covers. Adjustable guideplates and careful rocker setup, along with cast alum valve covers offer a very tolerant noise level with these heads. Don't forget that out of the box, those heads need to have the guides sized correctly, and the valve job redone, or your playing Russian Roulette with your engine. Broken valves do bad things to pistons and alum heads."
    Are you using TA heads or ?
     
  11. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    He's got TA heads..

    Noise is caused by lash.. this lash is either fixed in the system due to an adjustment issue, a product of wear in the valvetrain, or induced during operation due to lifter/camshaft operation/malfunction.

    Here's a question... with the old heads, cam and lifters, was is ever quiet?

    There are some aggressive lobe cams out there that are noisy. And it does not have to be a big cam to have them.. some "mild" cams can have a really aggressive ramp rate.

    so I am wondering if that cam was ever quiet.

    And the Lifters these days are a crap shoot.. we lost the nice delphi ones that had a very good track record. It's entirely possible that you just replaced really noisy lifters with ones not quite as noisy.

    ya, valvetrain noise sucks.. Noise and rpm capablity is such a problem industry wide, that I know a lot of builders who will not even use hyd cams anymore..You either get a solid, or you go somewhere else.

    JW
     
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  12. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    They are TA S1 heads ported and set up by Thumper aka Gary Paine. Im sure they are as right as possible.



    Before the start of this issue, with the iron heads, the only time I would hear any valve trane noise was when I let it get a bit low on oil and that was 20K miles ago. was using the factory steel valve covers. Following JW's suggestion I added another .030 of preload to the pushrods. Did a quick test and 1 full turn ='s exactly .030 so thats 2 turns out from 0 lash. It didnt make much if any difference. The covers on it now are the old skool Edelbrock finned cast alumn. covers using the new composite O ringed gaskets which BTW are pretty bad assed! I've been running the 290-08H cam since the rebuild at 80K miles / 10 yrs ago
     
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  13. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    I ran a 288-94H cam years ago that had the sewing machine sound. Nothing I could do to adjust it out, either. Once I changed to a 288-98H, the sewing machine went away.
     
  14. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    ;)
    Something I learned years ago from trying to rid my 350 from the annoying tick/clack was this: IF initial preload is set properly (.020 to .050) BEFORE start up, NO AMOUNT of additional preload will cure it. What happens is with additional preload, the lifter plunger just resides a tad lower in the lifter body, and settles back to making noise ( lash is still present from the lifters inability to stay full of oil with increased spring pressure from HP springs)
    What I discovered was by removing one of my inner valve springs the lifters got quiet. Why? The lighter spring pressure was easier on the lifter plunger and the plunger wasn’t overcome by spring pressure it couldn’t handle. ( crappy lifters)
    Briz, you may be past this point, but maybe try removing your inner spring and run it/drive it, I bet it’s quiet
     
    Smartin likes this.
  15. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    He broke it in with just the outer springs.. was it quiet then Steve?

    Your correct Mark.. when you have lifter issues, anything you can do to reduce the force on the lifters will help. About 20 years ago, we had one on the dyno, that had lifter failure at rpm.. would not rev past about 5400... Had 1.6 TA roller rockers on it... I simply took the rollers off, and put a set of stamped steel rockers on it. No other changes, same lifter preload, and it sounded and revved like a completely different engine. Revved to 6,000 with no issues.

    Problem with what your saying is that without the inner spring, you don't have enough valve spring pressure to control the valvetrain at rpm. I have never checked just the outer spring on a set of the TA 1125's, but I would be surprised if it is more than 200lbs at .500 lift.

    So you severely limit the rpm capability of the engine, and risk engine damage should you inadvertently run it into valve float.

    JW
     
    Mark Demko likes this.
  16. BrunoD

    BrunoD Looking for Fast Eddie

    Briz the first spacer might be your problem as it seems not to be long enough long enough.Look at it closely,it might be that.
     
  17. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    :cool:
    Your probably correct on the 1125 spring pressure without the inner spring, I never measured, I did drive the car with just the outter spring for awhile, no issues but didn’t go past 5000 rpm. I just wanted to experience a quiet valvetrain for a bit:D
    The 1125 springs are kinda wimpy, I tried the 1130 springs for the 455, they would have worked for 150 on the seat and 350 at .565 lift with my roller cam, but I struck water trying to cut the seats deep enough.
    The 350 really IS resistant to performance mods, very compact, not much room for bigger, better, faster:cool:
    Ok back to Briz’s Riv
     
  18. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    At first start up for maybe a full min it was loud. But after a few mins at 2000 RPM things quieted down and smoothed out. Tell ya that first 10 mins was nerve racking. Standing where I could see the OP and WT gages while the stop watch ticked its way up to 20 , had a knot in my gut. But ya, at speed / RPM it was quiet enough. once I brought it back down to 800 thinking I had it licked is when I started hearing the noise. Like I said above... Its not like prior to the lifter swap where just 1 and 7 were hammering away... just a light sewing machine mechanical noise. Thought once I put the inner springs back in and added another turn to the pushrods it would go away but no change.

    Bruno, Not sure what spacer your talking about.
     
  19. BrunoD

    BrunoD Looking for Fast Eddie

    When I was watching the video,I'm looking at the first of the 2 or 3 springs showing them going up and down.The very first spacer is not as wide as the one next to it.And it seems as the noise is from the rocker hitting the spacer.Thats the way it looks to me.Just double check it. Bruno.I just double checked that first spacer and its turning black so the spacer is good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2022
  20. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Ahhh That vid was with the iron heads. do not have them on the engine any longer.
     

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