Terrifying towing solution request.

Discussion in 'The Choo-Choo shop' started by Electrajim, May 25, 2009.

  1. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    What will provide the same results, with a better value?
    Isn't there a similar product with the same technology?

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    I seriously believe I could enjoy my time at the GS Nationals even MORE if I didn't have my moments of temporary terror when I get passed by an 18 wheeler.
    I'd like to make the trip, part of the fun.

    Some facts for my stuff.

    Trailer is a Big Tex dual axle wood flat bed 70CH trailer, brakes on back axle.
    I'm towing a 4200lb Electra, balanced on trailer as best as I can see.
    I tow with a 31' 92 Fleetoowd Bounder, that requires a ball drop.
    I'd like to be able to tow the same trailer/car with the _same_ model car, which will require a ball lift.
    I tow only one time a year, but it might be more with a proper setup.


    I'd like to try a decent trailer hitch that I can use between vehicles before I start modding, and adding on suspension parts on the tow vehicles.

    I hope not to spend $3000 (more than what I paid for the trailer).
    I can afford more than a $300 too.
    I don't want to buy something and say...well that didn't help, or it helped only a little.

    I swear, I don't want to go faster, (55MPH) just safer, and easier.
    Give me some advice before I go to a trailer dealer and say "hook me up"!
    :beers2:

    Thanks,
    ElectraJim
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  2. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    Jim, you could just add an anti sway bar, or just a regular equalizer hitch and those would help a lot.

    If you are having sway issues, it sounds like your car may not be centered on your trailer. If it is too far forward, or too far back, it makes a big difference on how it pulls. Good luck
     
  3. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    I'm pretty sure that the car is centered on the trailer. I've tried to keep the weight centered between the two axles, and understand the necessity to keep the tongue weight as neutral as possible.
    Care to share a "technical" method to check for a centered load on a trailer?
    I make sure tire pressures are perfect on the RV, and trailer.

    Lets say that the RV has a sway bar, and regular equalizer hitch doesn't do the trick. I'm stuck with stuff that doesn't work, or can't use.
    Whats the necessity of any other style or design of tow hitch on the market anyway?
    This RV has a short wheelbase, and it's a gas engine on a Ford chassis. Not a diesel pusher.

    If I tow with the 77 Electra, I'm sure I need all the towing tricks/tools I can find.
    BTW, the RV that I use is a loaner. I'd like to invest in my trailer stuff before bolting on a panhard bar or other stuff on the RV.

    I _do_ appreciate your suggestions carmantx.

    ElectraJim
     
  4. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    I just do a visual to see that your wheelbase is about equidistant in front and behind the trailer axles. I like to be a little towards the rear of the trailer.

    I am about to buy an equilizer hitch for my rig, I pull a 24' enclosed with our car behind my crew cab Chevy. I found hitches on Ebay for $149 that will slide in to the reciever on your tow rig. The rest of the stuff stays on your trailer, so nothing has to stay on the tow vehicle. I would start there. That should help you feel more stable.
     
  5. BUICK528

    BUICK528 Big Red

    1) find a CAT scale, or a scale at a moving and storage yard and put the tongue on one pad and axles on another pad, disconnected from the tow vehicle, shift car weight until you get about 500-600# of tongue weight or about 10-12%, mark the front hub center of the car on the trailer for permanent reference after moving the car around, use only 16" 6-8 ply tires or 15" 6-8 ply tires on the trailer, trailer should be level the entire time you shift the load

    2) get a Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller, absolutely nothing else

    3) get a Draw Tite equalizer hitch with 750# bars with seperate friction sway control tongue and ball

    4) level trailer by measuring the front and rear frame rails from the ground to the top of the rail

    5) set up the hitch head ball height so the top of the ball is exactly the same height as the INSIDE top of the tongue ball connection

    6) lower tongue unto hitch head until tongue just touches the hitch ball, stop there

    7) adjust the chains on the bars so that the roll over link is half travel stiff and then requires heavy effort to roll it up the rest of the way into the locked position, lock both chains this way

    8) lower tongue against the bar tension and stow tongue jack

    9) with tow package perfectly straight ahead attach the friction sway bar unto the balls and turn the tension arm until tension is felt, then go an additional 1/2 turn

    this is the absolute correct way to do this setup

    brakes on the trailer rear axle tend to induce even more sway than normal, try moving the brakes to the front axle or get brakes on both axles installed

    whenever you get into a sway conditon you should accelerate the tow vehicle slightly and manually apply the trailer brakes, the load will center perfectly until driver control is restored, 90% don't do this method in an emergency, and they crash... try it MY way and you'll understand why i've towed over 150,000 incident free miles

    your total cost should be less than $600 for everything if you do the labor

    also, FWIW, I always carry a laser digital temp gauge ($70) and shoot the tire temp at the outside tread (with radials, or sidewall if bias ply) every time I stop, if you get the weight bias correct there should NEVER be more than 3-5* difference between front and rear tire temps, I try for 1-3* difference.... the higher the temp bias the more weight is on that axle, and weight transfer needs to be corrected, the hubs should always be at least 5-10* cooler, or more, than tire temps or you have a bearing problem
     
  6. 1967GS340

    1967GS340 Well-Known Member

    I'm with him. A equalizer hitch makes a world of difference. You may look for some kind of RV forum and check out what people there have to say, but the little that I've used the equalizer, it makes the difference between feeling the trailer dancing around and not noticing it.
     
  7. staged70

    staged70 RIP

    Jim after reading your post I immediately thought what axlews do you have . You might be undersized on the axles for the trailer and car weight. Commercial built trailers have the axle weights listed. You might need to upgrade the trailer or the axles. I would at the very least have 5k axles. Remember that trailer weighs over 2K and the car is over 4K if you have small axles in the2.5 to 3 k range you are asking for it with a top heavy trailer.
    I agree about the equalizer hitch it will help a lot.
     
  8. 1967GS340

    1967GS340 Well-Known Member

    You know, reading this post got me to thinking. He may be right about the source of the problem. You may just look up the manufacturer on the internet and send them an email. Tell them what trailer you have, what you are pulling with, tongue height, weight of car, and a picture of the car on the trailer would probably help with load issues.
    They can probably get things sorted for you with the cheapest and best answer instead of a bunch of us that don't know the trailer.
    They have a vested interest in making sure that you are happy and safe.
     
  9. buickjunkie

    buickjunkie Well-Known Member

  10. Stage2Scott

    Stage2Scott Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    My brother and I towed all over Ohio, Ky, Mich and Pa with this setup in the early-mid 70s. Elec brakes on both axles, 500lb tongue weight, 750 lb equalizer setup, heavy home made hitch welded to the wagons frame rails-Chevelle was 3600 plus lbs, tool bax had jack/stands/etc in it, back of car was loaded with crap. TOw car was seriouszly under braked for the application, but the trailer brakes were astonishingly good, once it was weighted and set up correctly. everything Jim said above is excellent and will get you dialed in.:Smarty:
     
  11. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    For starters,
    I want to thank all of you for your concerns and advice about this stuff.
    Unless you know someone who is in the business or is a veteran in towing, you need to get good advice, and you guys are supplying it. :TU:

    Some pictures of the trailer, tires, and tow setup.

    Please advise on anything you see.

    ElectraJim
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

  13. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    I think I'm in range (if not right on the edge) of the axles, and trailer.
    I'd like to make use of this trailer and not have to invest in an all aluminum Fetherlite trailer if I have to. CHA CHING! http://www.fthr.com/car-trailer/

    The axles are "Dexter" brand. Which model, I can't tell.
    http://www.dexteraxle.com/nev_r_lube_bearings

    THIS is the trailer I have.
    http://www.bigtextrailers.com/pdf/70ch.pdf

    I had the brakes replaced (everything) and the bearings inspect and repacked at the GS Nationals this year. The bearings appeared to be fine and were reused.

    BTW, I wanted to let you know, I check each axle bearing, wheel, and tire with a infrared digital temp probe set to hold the MAX temperature.
    I do this frequently at each rest stop (can't pass one up) on my 300 mile trip to BG, KY as soon as I come to a stop. I was seeing max. tire temps uniform (around 95-100F) and about 10 more degrees at the axle hubs. The axles with the brakes...(this trip) is another story...all fixed now.

    PS, I need to learn how to multi-quote.

    ElectraJim
     
  14. austingta

    austingta Well-Known Member

    Jim-- there is your problem right there. You don't want the tongue weight neutral-- you want 10% of the trailer weight on the ball!

    5000 lb. trailer = 500 pounds tongue weight. Move that car forward on the trailer.
     
  15. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    austingta, are you saying that I don't really need any other sway control, or weight distribution hitch if I only move the car up on the trailer?
    That would be sweet!

    I wasn't 100% exactly sure where to put the car on the trailer.
    I'm sure that there was some positive weight on the tongue.
    RV owner warned me not to have TOO much. :confused:
    I was aiming for the "B pillar" post of the Electra to be centered over the two trailer axles. I figured with the long nose of the wood deck trailer,the trailer spare, and the Electras 455 engine, that I still had plenty of tongue weight.

    The setup towed pretty straight at speed, and elsewhere. It just got spooky when a wind column hit me. Not a constant wig-wag like I've seen before on some mis-match setups. :eek2:
     
  16. austingta

    austingta Well-Known Member

    I tow my Riviera with my 1/2 ton GMC all the time, with just the factory hitch. You do have a frame mounted hitch, right? Not a bumper ball?

    An anti-sway set-up is like a Cadillac for sure, but I don't need one. My car hauler is a 20 foot open trailer, and there are no white knuckles here.
     
  17. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    Problem is, I don't have a 1/2 ton GMC. I wish I did however for the same tow results that you have. :TU:

    No bumper mounted ball. Class III receiver hitch professionally installed/attached to frame. On RV, and Electra.

    One more thing, I havn't towed the white Electra (in picture) with the green Electra...yet, only with the RV.
    I'm needing solutions/suggestions for both.

    ElectraJim
     
  18. RACEBUICKS

    RACEBUICKS Midwest Buick Mafia

    Every tow vehicle can benifit from load control and sway bars. Its just plain safer. And a 1/2 ton really has no suspension to be able to tow that car and trailer together.
     
  19. Electrajim

    Electrajim Just another Jim

    http://www.myrvtalk.com/hitches/

    These guys seem to have a favorite.
    "3P" from ProRide.

    ElectraJim
     
  20. Mister T

    Mister T Just truckin' around

    There is a CAT scale at the Quik Trip located in Larimore, I-270 Exit 33. There is also one located in St Peters Quik Trip I-70, exit 222.

    For accuracy, CAT Scales > http://www.catscale.com/index.cfm are just about the most accurate platform scales out there. I drive 18 wheelers for a living, and sometimes cuss those pesky, slowpoke RV'ers. :laugh: :laugh: (just kidding)

    Be advised though, that both the above locations can get busy with truck drivers wanting to use the scales.
     

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