Do you actually follow polls? :error: Didn't you read the post that started this whole thread? Everybody, judges, healthcare workers and hospice management is in bed with each other with the husband's intersts at hand and her husband seems to be, from all that I have seen, read, and heard, getting away with probably beating her and breaking her bones. Now he wants her expired. Gee, why would that be? Stop republican bashing, where did that come from? Many Libs are shouting just as loud. Why leave them out of the bash session?
Something tells me if the Bushes, Frist, Delay, Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Mike Garrison, Kerry S., etc., etc. were all proven wrong, it would just make your year. Why does it seem like you'd love to break bread with a wife beater, but have no sympathy for loving parents of a dying child, or the dying child herself. You're priorities, in my ever-so-humble-opinion of course, seem wacked out. No offense. You're just coming at this with an ultra ultra left wing republican despising tone. I'm just trying to make sense of all your anger. Besides, I understand she's had x-rays already which showed previously broken bones and bones which were broken, healed and re-broken again.
I know I've probably opened a can of worms with my statements. Please try to ignore my sarcasm a bit. I know it can be obnoxious. I am not trying to pick a fight here. I'm just feeling a wee passionate. ou:
Ken, This is a passionate issue on both sides. I have left my politics and religion out of it. Just the facts. I'm still waiting for any of the "keep the feeding tube in" supporters to answer my question, is it only in this case or should we never remove a feeding tube? What is the criteria? To answer one of your questions, If Michael somehow found me and wanted to thank me for supporting his position on this board,yes I would meet with him. He has stood by the courage of his convictions in the face of unprecendated public interference with what should be a very private, personal decision. He has had to endure his wifes plight become fodder for the politicians. Yes I am angry about the situation. I'm angry that politicians have tried to step in at the last minute and use this situation for their own political gain. Tom Delay is using her to shore up his support with the far right. I feel that is just plain wrong. If congress was so concerned about her rights then they should have started the whole discussion much earlier and not done this midnight madness because they could. How many people here realise that a 6 month old baby in Texas was just taken off life support over the parents objections because the doctors felt any further intervention was futile and the parents could not pay? A law in Texas signed by Gov Bush allows it. I will be out for the evening so please don't think I'm hiding. I'll be back in the morning. Ken, you might find that we aren't as different as you think. Larry
Ken, Well, there's always smoke and fire when folks with opposite philosophies get tangled up. I recent met some of the right-wingers I had been taunting for years on a boating board. That night, they posted a thread stating how surprised thay were to meet a nice guy whose company they enjoyed. I liked them a lot also. So, arguing politics and religion brings out the worst in us. The results of the autopsy may settle many of the facts. Did she really have broken bones? If so, bad suspicions will be confirmed about her husband. Did she have any cognitive brain function? If not, her parents will be revealed as delusional fools. We just don't know yet - except that its a tragedy.
All that autopsy is going to accomplish is to further victimize this poor unfortunate woman. They are making her die a cruel and undignified death, so I guess they may as well just go all the way and mutilate her while they're at it! And don't have a civilized burial either.......just burn to ashes what's left. :af: So what if the autopsy proves anything.......how do they really know? I doubt if Mr. Schiavo will be going to jail even if they can prove he abused her. As for her brain, who really knows? Unless you are the soul inside of her body would you know for sure. How do they REALLY know?? I say let's take Mr. Schiavo, his lawyer, and this renegade judge and starve them to death. :rant: I don't think I can follow this tragedy any more.........I'm starting to feel ill.
Nail, If the autopsy proves that she has had no cognitive brain function, then you and many others have been played for fools by her delusional and manipulative parents. Can you even conceive of the thought that the judges had a more complete picture of the facts and witness credibilty than you do? OTOH, nobody will argue with you that starvation/dehydartion is a good course to end a life. Problem is, outside of certain situations in Oregon, that's the only legal option in these cases.
Not poking fun at your devotion, but asking that you consider that you do not have a lock on Heaven. There are many holy books and many prophesies available. Other than blind faith, how can you be so certain that your path is exclusively the only one favored by God? What makes you more correct than a devout Muslim, Buddhist, or Wiccan? They seems every bit as adamant as your are. Devotion, good works, respect for others are religion's great benefits. Smug righteousness and imposition on others are its greatest faults. I've been prayed for before on this forum, that's why I don't frequent it often.
:laugh: :laugh: Well, if if I were brain dead (DON'T EVEN GO THERE!) OK I'll admit it LOL :error: , I may not want to live that way but I certainly would not want to be starved to death.........would any of you guys want to be deprived of food until you die?
Emotions There really is alot of emotions going into this thread. I would have to agree with Riv2x4. I had personally had to make the decision to stop the revival of my son, so I can feel the pain and hardship that accompanies these decisions. Several things I see here being respewed is the non-sense that is being generated in the media. First we must look at the the problem, she is brain dead. She did suffer from an eating disorder(Bulimia) that created an electrolyte inbalance. Bulimia, unfortunately, rapidly lowers the potassium levels in the body, which will cause your heart to stop beating. This was the case causing her heart attack and depriving the brain without oxygen for over 5 minutes. CAT scans now displays the cerebral cortex as being complete saturated with spinal fluid and no activity. For those who didn't go to med school the cerebal sections of the brain is the part that defines you and makes you what you are. Terri's, unfortunately, is dead and her body doesn't know this. The reason for this is her cerebellum is still functioning. This section of the brain controls body movement which is why you see some movement. So you see she is dead and will never be what she was. This is why she is on life support. Life support is and combination of procedures that keep you alive, whether it be breathing, eating, cardiac assistance, and even dialysis. Most people, unfortunately, think of life support as assisted breathing. o No: The unfortunate position I see here, is the lack of assisted termination. Please, I don't want to start another discussion on this. So we must remove the only life support available. She will not feel anything, remember she really ceased to exist years ago, her body is alive on involuntary movements. They will wet her mouth to prevent dry mouth and give her morphine to prevent the invoulntary convulsions that come with starvation. This will make the immediate hospice workers more comfotable with the situation. I only wish this had not be publicized. I have seen this situation before and it annoys me to no end that this is being used for political gain. Like someone else said here this happens around the country alot and no one else is on the news. Am I the only one that sees the social war that is raging in this country. The war between those people who feel throwing more Jesus and guns at problems will solve them and those of us who don't, and why we can' make those people go away. I have worked for many years at hospital systems as a Systems/Electronic Technicain. I have come across some knowledge of medicine but by no means want to lead anyone to thinking I am an expert. I always ask a trained medical professional before making my views. Sincerely Clyde
Call me crazy guys but isn't keeping her alive keeping her out of any afterlife? I mean seriously. It's been 15 years and has next to no brain activity. She's not coming back. Sure, keeping someone alive sounds good but in the end she's not living, she's just existing because everyone around her can't let go. And even in the unlikely case she does wake up, she'd be severely retarded. Now if I went into a coma and woke up retarded I'd pray for death every day. There's no way I'd ever want to live like that. And while I'm not her, ask yourself if that's what you'd want.
I know that must have been a tramatic experience for you, I'm truely sorry for your loss. But IMHO (and PLEASE do not take this as a cold, uncaring remark..) revival is very remotely..(if at all) related in this case though....she's still breathing (on her own I might add) and still alive! Ever hear the phrase "be careful what you wish for?" It will not ever be any more applicable than to your above statement. You WILL get what you ("we") ask for and we (those whom the LORD knows is his own) will be taken and then ALL Hell on earth will be loosed. Oh, the first 3 1/2 years will seem like heaven on earth but then this "saviour" will show his true self and declare himself GOD. Most still here will fall for his cunning deceptions and gladly worship him because the LORD will lease a great dillussion so that if truth came up and slapped someone in the face they wouldn't even know it! To me that would be the perfect example of utterly gulible.....deceived is the word the BIBLE uses for it. The only thing stopping this from happening now is the fact that the Restrainer is still present here on Earth. Now the Restrainer can be either the Holy Spirt (The Comfortor) or the true Church (HIS people, not the buildings which house us) but seeing as how both leave at the Rapture, I would say it's the combination of both. The BIBLE says that this dillussion WILL BE SO GREAT that if it were possible even the very elect would be deceived..... What you believe now WILL determine your future in that period of time (or not) and your eternity and where it will be spent! Search your soul and listen to your conscience, it's a matter of life (eternal) and death (in the Lake of Fire). Pick up the nearest BIBLE and start reading! Find a BIBLE BELIEVING church and tread carefully as Christ himself said that there would be many "Christ's" taught in the last days. The LORD IS a GOD of love but also a GOD of wrath against wickedness and all who will not repent of their wickedness. Many churches who teach "Christ" do just has he warned his disciples would happen....they will teach a message that "tickles the ears of the listeners".....say things that are not convicting to the very soul of the people....saying only the things that people want to hear to make them feel good. Treating the BIBLE as a buffet line at dinner and picking and choosing ONLY what they like. We (the believers) are to be "salt and light" to the world. Salt preserves and purifies and light...well...it brings things out of the darkeness (sin)! Beware...man's intelect has become his god! Look around all you see is the explaining away of the LORD and HIS ways and HIS laws. HIS ways are far above our ways, to put that in plain english....the LORD has reveiled himself through HIS word. To know GOD is to know HIS word! Christ said that "I AM the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME". There IS NO OTHERS WAY...if there were then the LORD would have not sent his SON to live, be crucified and murdered and then be resurrected on the third day! If ANY other way...Islam, Mohhamed, Budda, Hinduism, or any other you can possible pull out of the FALSE RELIGION category were able to achieve this then Christ's death was a totally moot action. For GOD so loved the world that he sent his ONLY begotten SON that whosoever believeth in HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life. For people who think they are "good people" and their "good works" are going to do it for them well.... The BIBLE says...ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. We ARE ALL as filthy rags in the LORD's sight and the ONLY thing that "blinds" the LORD to our sin is for each and every man, woman and child (who is able to comprehend his or her actions) is claiming the blood that Christ shed on the cross as their covering. Believe he rose on the third day just as he said he would. Believe HE now sits at the right hand of the Father. AND....repent of their sins...meaning turning away not just confessing it. What can wash away our sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus! For those who believe I am and call me a "Bible Thumper"....if it refers to me following Christ's command to The Great Commission then I GLADLY and openly will accept that label. As it is a small price compared to what he suffered for a very unworthy me!! :Smarty: Christ said the world hated HIM (for reveiling the truth) and the world would hate anyone who followed with the same message. Jesus said "for the servent IS NOT greater than the master". I CAN SAY WITH ABSOLUTE UTTER ASSURANCE THAT I KNOW WHERE MY ETERNAL HOME WILL BE....do you?o No: GOD bless you all and I pray that those who doubt the truth are brought into the light....
Kerry S. Please skip the rhetoric and answer this question. Is it this case only or should a feeding tube never be removed? What is the criteria for your arguement. If you want to say it is based on your religious beleifs, that's fine, but how about a simple answer to the question. While you are at it how about this question. What do you think would or should happen to Terri if the feeding tube was restored? Who should care for her, who should decide what medical treatments are appropriate, when would it be right to remove interventions or not treat her? Is is appropriate to amputate limbs if they become infected? Should she be kept alive until she is 70, or 80, or ?? While your at it, why no indignation about the 6 month old baby in Texas that was removed from life support over the parents wishes because they could not pay for the medical care needed to keep him alive. The doctors and hospital decided that additional care was futile, and they had the right to stop the treatment. Larry
Filthy rags Mention was made of FILTHY RAGS in the previous post from Kerry S. A true definition in the greek is "leprosy,puss infected outbreak" that should give some insight into HUMAN Achievement into gaining your way into Heaven in your OWN way! here is a section to check out what GOD says http://www.bible.gospelcom.net/ Revelation 3:20 should be your first look see! we as believers do not want to tell you what you should do !But YOU must do to enter eternity cleansed and SIN free.25 years ago this month I like you Hated all religious mentions,However The lord got my attention and saved me just as he saved others(Kerry,Dan,) and others who frequent this sight.You need to ask yourselves where does your annomosity come from when religious subjects come up! you are inflamed with rancor. I can say with certainty that that is not the case with the believers on this board.Our objective is to inform NOT dismiss your thinking ! but the struggle will continue regardless of what we say to get you to KNOW what the LORD has shown each and everyone of US ! GOD bless and please take advantage of the site provided Gary
Gary, same question to you as Kerry S. Please skip the rhetoric and answer this question. Is it this case only or should a feeding tube never be removed? What is the criteria for your arguement. If you want to say it is based on your religious beliefs, that's fine, but how about a simple answer to the question. While you are at it how about this question. What do you think would or should happen to Terri if the feeding tube was restored? Who should care for her, who should decide what medical treatments are appropriate, when would it be right to remove interventions or not treat her? Is is appropriate to amputate limbs if they become infected? Should she be kept alive until she is 70, or 80, or ?? While your at it, why no indignation about the 6 month old baby in Texas that was removed from life support over the parents wishes because they could not pay for the medical care needed to keep him alive. The doctors and hospital decided that additional care was futile, and they had the right to stop the treatment. I am still waiting for ANYONE from the keep her alive camp to answer these questions. All they give is rhetoric. Larry
IMHO answer OK ! here is where I see your Question ! In the early part of last century People(family) took care of their loved ones! When/Where did WE change the natural Affection in society? This generation is NOT cognizant of Caring for one another but are always lead astray by public OPINION whether by the media or who ever has the imediate pulpit! search your heart and ask yourself Why we as a nation are so caught up in this Shiavo debate? You say RETHORIC I say my opinion(belief)You have missed the whole picture! Its NOT just about what is taking place as I write this.Its the overall concenses about whats Right and whats wrong,You have tunnel vision on this subject!IHMO WE(as belivers) are looking at the time when YOU are in a desparate state ! or I etc.When I was real young I to was invincible(thinking) but as I've grown older I see it differently than years ago.read my previous post about where we are headed in this country I.E. world for that matter ! The time is coming when WE as a people will no longer be merciful at ALL to one another,But have ARE OWN personal protections as are TOP priorty(pretty much that way now) but it will most certainly get much worse YOU will see it happen! Rethoric ??yours or mine ??
Gary, why didn't you answer the questions? More rhetoric about your god. I must say that response was about what I expected. Is her husband not her family? I'm not the one with tunnel vision on this. Lets see answers Gary. Larry
