So I have a dumb question if a guy buys a ta block does that eliminate the need for both the girdles if a guy wants say 700 800 hp Glen
It eliminates the need for any girdle of any kind, no one has made no where near enough HP to test the limits of tge TA block
So is it safe to say that a guy can probably save 1200 bucks alone in girdles and shop work for the guy who cant do it himself
Thats the idea behind it, a prepped iron block is $3500+ for big power and you still are on borrowed time, $3k more and if you half way watch what you do it will be the last you buy, not to mention the available cubic in's , An aluminum block does require certain protocol for its health but its been done with success for years and years in the BBC SBC world
Glen, Yes, no extra support is required. I built the first production one back in 2011, made 750 HP, went 425 1/4 mile runs till I saw it back again in 2014. No wear due to structural concerns existed in that engine. Bores simply needed a light hone, and we resized the mains, but that's pretty normal for an aluminum block, so I am told. The entire program has now evolved to the point where you can now expect to have good durability and longevity in a 700-900 HP range for racing. A few have went over 1000 HP but the long term durability picture is not complete yet on those. Feel free to give me a call if you have any questions on them, I have 5 Tomahawk builds going right now. JW
The block with the 54 mm cam tunnel and the 460 Main tunnel. Crank and bearings are cheaper with the Ford set up.
I'm REALLY surprised that none of you Tomahawk guys haven't figured out that a BB Mopar raw forging crankshaft would possibly be made into a BBB crank for the Tomahawk block if it was setup to the BBM mains. Bore spacing for a BBB is 4.750" the bore spacing for a BBM is 4.800", .050" more. Measured from the center out that would mean that the BBM is .025" further outward for each middle cylinder and .075" more outward for the outer cylinders, would be the same for the crank, so possibly enough material to machine to the BBB dimensions? Starting from a 4340 forging would be a substantial cost savings vs starting from a 4340 billet I would think with just about any available stroke that would be desirable in a tomahawk block. Who knows, if there was enough demand they might even rework the forging dies so they can get the stock 3.250" mains out of them, what's a bit more machining if they can get 2 different cranks out of their forgings? Then again there may be enough meat on the raw forgings to make 3.00" mains out of them? You won't know unless you check. GL Derek
All the 3.0 Ford main cranks we have supplied for these blocks have been forgings. Forge crank is less expensive than a billet, you are right. I have turned my aluminum block in the wagon 8500rpm more than once, many times to 8000. So far so good. Never thought a good block would change things around as much as it has. I think most everyone who is running one would share the same results. Just dyno'ed a 572 aluminum Stage 2TE 2 weeks ago. Ran it on 91 octane pump gas from Circle K, 10.6:1 compression, hyd roller, SP-2. Made 703hp @5800 and 729tq @4500. This engine made 703tq @ 3900rpm even. Going in a street car in WI.
That's cool!! Didn't know you were converting the Ford raw forging crank to a BBB, would of thought the BBM would of been easier to do it with and possibly less expensive?(not sure both brands aren't "cheap" to build) So if the 4.900" bore spacing Ford raw forging can be converted to the BBB specs, then using a 4.840" bore spacing BBC raw forging should be even easier? I ask because wouldn't the BBC raw forging cost less than the Ford or even the BBM forgings to use? Would be less bearing speed with the 2.75" mains as well. o No: Oh well, glad to know you guys get to use a raw forging of a crank anyway. :TU: Derek
That's horse pucky, remember this name, Dick Bradshaw, he has a company making cast iron four bolt main, main priority oiling system, that is rt with TA's aluminum block $2500 down and $2000 when product arrives. He also has Stage two heads that the intake port is raised 5/8" inch from stock and exhaust is stock stage two. The ports have tons of meat for porting. The valve sizes start at 2.180 intake valves and 1.73 exhaust valves. They can be ported to flow 440 cfm without totally reconstructing the intake ports. These are also cast iron. Dick is reported to be helping a Buick guy on his buick engine that will produce 2500 hp with twin turbo's.
The forging that is being used I believe was designed for the Mopar. It also can be used for other applications. Most Mopar forgings can only be finished at 2.750" main. The one we are using can be finished at 3.0" Unfortunately it is just shy of the 3.250" needed for the STD Buick.
That makes more sense dimensionally using the BBM forging, maybe for a few $$ they would rework the forging dies so that little extra bit can be had to get to 3.250"? Wouldn't hurt to ask the supplier if you think there would be a demand for the 3.250" mains? Usually the more cranks you can purchase at one time the lower the cost would be, so if you could market them to the stock block crowd as well as the Tomahawk block crowd it could be worth paying to have the forging dies altered if the cost isn't higher than the potential return. Are these 4340 forged cranks going to be added to your website? As of now there is just the billet and stock 455 cranks there with only a V6 forged crank offered. Very cool you figured out to use the BBM aftermarket raw forging to make a BBB crank!(been hinting at that here for years :eek2 That basically saves you around $100,000 in tooling costs to make the BBB cranks! :TU: That being said I'm sure the supplier tacks on a tooling cost fee for each raw forging you purchase from them to pay the owner of the tooling a commission, it beats paying that $100,000 for the tooling if demand is low though. It gets the parts to the Buick community as well, thanks Mike. Perhaps when you list that crank selection on your website it could help sell more Tomahawk blocks? The sticker shock of the price of the block isn't as bad as the needed components to put the rest of the engine together. For instance going from a $3,625 crank to a crank that is perhaps under $1,000 should help a lot! And lets face it who wants to build an aftermarket aluminum block with a stock cast crank, probably not very many people I would think. Very cool, this could lead to a surge of Tomahawk sales? :TU: Derek
So if your block is set up for Standard Buick Mains is there a special bearing or a spacer that fits under a bearing to make up the difference ?
I have seen 875 on a stock crank with aluminum rods. 7000 RPM. Many Buick 455 cranks have lived peacefully in the 800 HP range. The blocks break first especially with no girdle or fill. The Buick 455 crank is a good piece.
Glen, If you have the $$$ for the TA block please be smart and buy the block. If you don't have the $$$ then wait to get the $$$. I have had very good luck with the iron blocks but would not recommend anyone build an iron block again. Good Luck
Search Dick Bradshaw and Bulldog Performance on google and see what kind of comments you get from posts. Lots of negative remarks out there and people not getting their product after sending him money.
