That is, if I am planning on doing something stupid. Here's the story: I bought a 1984 Regal Limited, standard 231 V6 (full California emissions BS), etc for cheap because I wanted a weekend project car. I have fond memories of my 1981 Regal, I just plain like the vehicles. Anyway, the 84 didn't really run when I bought it. The engine needed at very least a valve job, so I went ahead with a full rebuild. Also, the carb (DualJet 210) was in bad shape so I rebuilt that. So it finally runs like it should and I'm ready to start having real fun with it. First, I want to get rid of the POS THM200 that it came with and put in a moderately built 200-4R. Everything I've read says that this should be a fairly easy fit, the 200-4R has universal bolt patterns and the size is the same as the 200. Next, I plan on putting in new shocks (probably KYB) and beefier sway bars fore and aft. I'm not sure what to do after that, my ultimate goal is (after I've saved up enough and move out of California with the ridiculously restrictive smog laws) to do a moderate (300 hp or so) build on a Chevy small block (the ubiquitous 350) and drop that in to replace the 120 hp 231. After that, dual exhaust etc. but that's a few years down the road. So I ask all of you with experience (this is the first car I've really done more than replacing broken stuff with): do you see anything in my plans that I'm forgetting or that is impossible? Am I wrong about the 200-4R being a reasonably easy swap? Am I wrong about the Chevy 350 being reasonably easily dropped in? Are there any other things about this plan I should be thinking of? I've already put in more money than it's technically worth to get the moth-eaten interior redone and the paint stripped and a new coat on. (the previous paint job was a home job - you could see roller marks!) I just don't want to, for example, put in the really big bucks and time in replacing the tranny if I'll never get more than 120 hp out of her.
Sounds like a good plan. This sub-forum focuses on transplanting Buick engines into Regals, so response to the Chevy power may be lukewarm. I know, since my budget meant I had to go Chevy powered in mine. Try www.gbodyforum.com You'll find alot of info there too. Good luck!
Luke warm? That's putting it nice Dan.:laugh: Consider dropping a Buick 350 in there first. Search through this forum for the pros and cons. -MARK
Heh, I did expect a little hostility to the bowtie engine suggestion. Hence the thread title I guess... So what would be the benefit of the Buick 350 over the Chevy 350? The reasons I thought of the Chevy are: - Cheap. - Easily available; GM Goodwrench is still manufacturing these things. - Easily available aftermarket performance parts
I've got a 85 Regal with a 231 and two barrel carb also (66,000 orginal miles) and I thought about putting a 200R4 transmission in it. My transmission man (best friend) advised against the transmission swap as he said the motor doesn't make enough power to keep it in overdrive, ie: it will keep going in and out of overdrive. He advised a turbo 350 (direct swap) and that has worked for me. Good luck in what ever decision you make.
Thanks for that advice. My wife will be happy to hear I won't be spending that much money... yet :grin: I'll just keep the 200 as long as it has the stock engine.
Stock for stock the Buick 350 is a better engine. It's also a lighter engine. I think the weight of an all iron Buick 350 is just over 400 lbs. The Chevy is somewhere around 500. Also the hardest part about swapping a Buick 350 into where a Buick 231 was is cutting the fan shroud straight.
Plus there's the sheer aesthetic appeal of having pure Buick power under the hood (and the air cleaner and valve cover logos) But seriously, are there abundant Buick 350s in reasonably good shape? I don't have a machine shop in my basement (or a basement at all, for that matter) to rebore cylinders or grind heads and cams. Basically I can do soft parts or swap for new and aftermarket but machining is beyond my capabilities.
plus a buick 350 will bolt right in place of the v6. switching the frame pads to go to the chevy v8 is the hardest part of the swap. all you need to do is find someone upgrading there skylark to a 455 and they will have a running 350-th350 combo sitting on there garage floor taking up space. can be swaped out in a day. all fuel lines and electrical is in the right place. find a v8 fand shroud from a monte carlo and youll be good to go.my 2 cents
I gave away a running 71 Buick 350 engine for $26.00. I still have the TH350 that backed it up. It works fine $75.00. Where are you located?? I am near Philadelphia Pa. Send me a PM if interested.
Well, I'm in California so I can't swap in a Buick V8 of any worth. CA law says that any engine swapped in must be no older than the car it gets put into. It also has to have all the smog devices that the original car did. I'm kind of torn among restoring the Regal to stock, putting in a SBC, or getting it to decent condition, giving it to my father, and looking for a boattail Riviera. (although if I got a Buick 350 for that low, I could justify tinkering with it and getting it all shiny and nice until I move from this goddamn state)
Hate to say it but maybe you should look for a different car. Emission tests are no fun when it is your daily driver. I had to put out to pasture my ultra sleeper g body 86 4door bonneville (400+ 350 chev/th350). If the car runs good now leave it as is. The engine was made to be weak. Don't use a 200r4. I know my daily dr. 87 231 is so weak it wouldn't handle the load. It works hard just keeping up with todays modern cars. When the choke is on is the only time it has any pwr. When you move out of Cal. get a Buick 350 rather than a chev. 350. It's an easier swap. Ray
I think the weight of an all iron Buick 350 is just over 400 lbs. The Chevy is somewhere around 500. SBB is ~450lbs in stock trim. SBC is ~590lbs. BBB is ~625. i'd much rather go BBB than SBC. heck, go turbo v6 and have the best of both worlds. you'd also be period correct. Well, I'm in California so I can't swap in a Buick V8 of any worth. a. all buick v8 production ceased in 1981 so you can't put in a Buick v8 of any kind b. this statement was contradicted by what you put in your OP. I'm not sure what to do after that, my ultimate goal is (after I've saved up enough and move out of California with the ridiculously restrictive smog laws) to do a moderate (300 hp or so) build on a Chevy small block although if I got a Buick 350 for that low, I could justify tinkering with it and getting it all shiny and nice until I move from this goddamn state Buick 350s and 340s ( the 1966-1967 version of the engine ) are practically given away. between the current lack of aftermarket parts and the predilection most Buick guys have of slapping in a 455 all you need to do is keep an eye on the board and/or put up a request in the 'Parts Wanted' section. i'd try and acquire one before TA brings out their new stuff though. that might start generating some demand for them. So what would be the benefit of the Buick 350 over the Chevy 350? The reasons I thought of the Chevy are: - Cheap. - Easily available; GM Goodwrench is still manufacturing these things. - Easily available aftermarket performance parts good points, all. i'll play devil's advocate: - the 150lb weight advantage is hard/expensive to get back at the drag strip - the Buick will destroy the Chevy for torque numbers for like amounts ( not cost ) of engine modding. torque means streetability - the Buick 350 and old stock parts for it is readily available as long as you can find a salvage yard that keeps 1970s cars around. if needed, many new production parts for the 1980s v6 can be used in the 350/340 - little current availability of performance parts but www.TAPerformance.com is planning on releasing aluminum heads and a single plane intake after they roll out their new aluminum 455 block - the SBB is the same architecture that was used for the turbo 231v6. they are very strong and can obviously take the application of serious amounts of power. - it's a Buick. no matter how much money you spend on an SBC you're still just going to have a Chevy. might as well put a 351 Cleveland in your car:bla: check around in the SBB sticky threads. Jim Burek in El Paso put together a normally aspirated engine that put down ~550hp. there was a turbo 350 that was over 1000.
well, when i first did my 84 which is now a bbb, i did it with a 305 chevy out of a monte carlo of they same year. with a bone stock motor and all of the emissions crap and a catalytic converter it passed the ohio emissions test, granted california is alot tougher im sure.luckly in oh i was able to get colector plates after it passed the echeck once.
I didn't realize the Chevy small block was that heavy. I was thinking about 525. As mentioned, the lack of aftermarket parts for the Buick 350 is its downfall. But that downfall is great for those looking for these engines. Summer of 06 I picked up 3 Buick 350's for $90. Two run and are 70's the one that didn't is a 69 and has a rod knock. I kinda want to keep these around, even though I had an opportunity to sell them a couple of times. As said, when the aftermarket parts become available these motors will be worth some money, maybe I'll sell then.
I didn't realize the Chevy small block was that heavy. I was thinking about 525. Chevy used much lower Nickel content iron than the rest of the GM divisions and the consequently weaker material required much thicker castings to reliably hold the power. this means that the Chevy engines are by far the heaviest thing GM had at a given displacement ( except vs the lower displacement Ponchos, because Pontiac never had a true 'small block' ) level. the BBC weighs ~750lbs, for instance. hell, that Electra i was racing weighed 3920 with me in it. one of the guys we were racing against was running a BBC 74 Monte Carlo and his car weighed 100lbs more than mine did. :shock: this engine weight difference normally didn't show up in production curb weights though as the non-Chevy divisions threw so many gewgaws and sound deadeners on their cars that they usually outweighed the Chevies. if you talk to guys who swap Bu 455s in place of an SBC you'll note that none of them have a problem with the nose sitting too low. i even had one tell me that the nose of his Camaro sat higher after he had swapped in his hypereutectic 455. i dunno about that one though. you'd probably have to use aluminum heads, intake, headers and a ministarter to get an effect like that.
Yeah I've always heard about the inferior iron Chevy used. When spoken about 4 bolt mains around here, I'll always throw in that they have 4 bolts threaded into mush. And that about every diesel engine produced has two bolt mains, and you don't see them pushing out the bottom ends. Even with boost levels above 50 pounds (though that might be more about head bolts). But anyway, I just didn't realize that the weight difference was that much.
Yeah, I've got to get back to finishing my turbo swap project! Its also a like year motor. Can't you tag this car collector in Cali?
A few years ago California killed the rolling smog exemption designation and made it <1975 models only. Also, if you put collector plates on your car in CA, it's no longer street legal; it's considered "show car only."
