Starting a regal project, opinions wanted?

I am putting together a plan for my 86 regal project car and would like to here some folks opinions on what should/could be done.

Here's what I know so far.

The car has a 307 ci olds V8, a 200-4r trans and a 7.5" GM 10 bolt rear.

From what I hear the 307 is a boat anchor and after scanning some online shops (i.e. summit, jegs) there is nothing worthwhile about building one of these motors. parts availablility wise and displacement wise.

I believe the car has a 200-4r trans, which is a good thing correct? Reading up on some GN info, these OD transmissions seem like a good choice for a street car and can be built to handle plenty of power.

I was considering the following for my buildup, sbc 355/383 and a 8.5" 10 bolt rear.

However in reading on this site it seems there are alot of buick purists. So let me know what buick engines are available etc.

I prefer to stay with a small block and here are some of the engines I have looked into so far.

400 sbc, the problem with this seems to be availablity since I can't find a chevy 400 anywhere in the tri-state area.

350 sbc, oddly enough one of the most numerous engines made is also hard to come by here in NJ. I have found some but yards are looking for $ 500+ for their junkyards motors.

305 sbc, I know it seems silly right. I also for awhile believed that these were boat anchors. However I have found that you can stroke them to 334/335 ci for a reasonable amount and all 350 top end components bolt on. Couple this with the fact that these are in abundance and for cheap, I thought it would be something different to go with.

403 pontiac, saw this suggested somewhere, it would get me the cubes i am looking for, however I have learned they have windowed main webbing which keeps them from being rev worthy or very strong. I am not a pontiac guy so I don't know.

I am not really looking for a big block.

Anyhow fire away, opinions are welcome.

 

you can put any of them in there, the hardest part is the motor mounts. that tranny you have will only bolt up to buick, olds and pontiac motors and is a very good tranny if built right. adding a sbc will be the cheapest way to do it but you will find that all of us will tell you to put a 350 buick motor in it if you have to stay with a small block. i just pulled my chebbie motor to put a 455 stage 1 motor in 1 of mine and all though it would have been alot easier without my big ass headers, it will be worth it in the long run. im sure depending on where you live there is one of us on the board that has a 350 buick motor hangin around you could get off us. hope this helps. dan

 

I was under the impression that the buick 350 was junk also, but after doing some research it has alot available also.

How about the rear end? With a set of moser direct fit axles, gears and a diff will the rear hold up?

I am used to fords honestly and for the longest time people said the 8.8 rear was junk, which isn't completely true.

 

if you go with an 8.5 10 bolt, it should hold up to any small block you put in it. there getting harder to come by all the time too. im actually trying to find one myself, i have a 7.5 10 bolt posi and im just waiting for it to blow into millions of pieces. the 350 buicks can be made to run real well if you have deep pockets. id stay away from the 403, i do believe its actually an olds motor even though they only used it in trans ams. the 400 in ta's was the pontiac motor. i put a 455 olds motor in my 307 car and it was a little easier then putting my 455 buick motor in the first one.

 

Since you have an olds motor in there anyways, it would be easiest to put an olds into it. Everyone does chevies, so if you want to be like everyone else put a chevy in it. I'd say put a 350 or 455 Buick in. To learn how to do it read the sticky on top of the V8 Buick Powered Regals page.

 

The 403 is an Olds motor, not a pontiac.

 

regal swap

everyone has an opinion about any engine you might put in there
the thing is what do you like. i have a 455 buick in my regal but i have had a 383 small chevy,350 buick(which was ok for everyday use and 14 second track runs with decent gas mileage)turbo v6,olds 350
all of which would be good motors if you do the right combination
the olds 307 will run good with a set of 350 heads and edelbrock intake(you would see why if you seen the intake ports).any motor is a boat anchor to someone who doenst like that engine. do what you want because if your not happy with it when your done what good will the car be to you.
if your near chicago i have a 12 bolt with traction bars and a 383/700r4 combo and most of the parts for a swap(motor and trans would need some work as been sitting) .also have tuned port injection unit i was going to use with this but i never wanted a chevy was talked into it by friends because it was cheap and easy.
also the 403 olds was available in buick electra/riv/delta88/royale88 along with some caddy
good luck
andy :TU:

 

I don't know if their is any one totally correct answere. Depends on your goals. Please consider doing something other than another sbc. Its been so overdone especially by the follow the herd mentality that often stepped over and never even looked into other viable engines. Why not a big block? Just curious.

Since you already have an Olds small block, a 403 if you can find one should be a logical motor again depending on your goals. 400HP 400+TQ pump gas 403 can be built to hold up and fits all your existing brackets, pulleys, hook ups, mounts, motor mounts, tranny, fuel lines, battery, strarter, gauges etc. So it is a drop in as far as the motor goes. Naturally like the Buick motors you would be better off not to take your build up advice from Jegs etc or the local know it all. Find someone who specializes in the motor you choose. realoldspower would be a good board to ask about it and see proven build ups. The 403 is a little more difficult and costly up front than some other choices but might be at least in part made up with the swap being easier quicker and cheaper.

Personally for a strong reliable pump gas street car I love the Buick 430/455 and the big Cad 472/500. The best all around advice I can give is regardless of what you build for it spend some money on getting at least street ported heads. Skip some chrome or high dollar distributor or ignition box if ya have to because the power is in the heads and nobody wants to go through all this work and expense to be uninspired by what he has built.

 

Hey Regal
You never specified what the car was to be used for, How fast would you like it to be, or how much you want to spend on your project.

 

I have been doing some checking and reading on buick V8's and the various BOP/chevy setups possible.

According to most, the 200-4R has both BOP and chevy bolt patterns so that it could bolt up to a sbc.

After reading about the build ups of buick V8's, I think I am going to use a sbc. I think they allow for a better bang for the buck combination.

Most of the buick 350's I have seen around were fairly mild and never propelled these cars faster than 14's. Not to say its not possible but after checking out TA performance etc building a real monster is much more costly then building a sbc.

I am not trying to be a purist, I just want to build a car that hauls.

I am looking to build a street/strip regal with around 400hp/400tq and my budget for the build is in the $ 6k-7k region. Thats cash I have to use, I realize to build something hot it could cost me a bit more and I am cool with that. I am not trying to build on a budget.

 

Regal
From what I here this isn't going to be your daily driver. You asked for some opinions so I will give you mine. Your 200-R4, if thats what you have , is a good trans but not all have the dual pattern. Also I here you wanting bang for the buck, the 200 is going to be more expensive to modify, buy a converter for and set up OD. The 350 trans is simple and tough plus the convertors are more reasonable. I prefer the 400 my self. Believe it or not that 7.5 rear end in your car will take a lot of abuse especially with an auto trans. I ran one into the high 12's w/ 9in slicks - no problems. But if your are putting money into a rear the 8.5 is much stronger. I myself would go with 9in ford w/ a bolt in Moser rear. No matter what rear end you use you MUST replace the bushings to prevent drive shaft problems. Your engine choice will disapoint the people of this site and out of respect I won't go there, I will PM you.

 

the 86' 200-4r is a dual bolt pattern bell housing... i do believe the 200 case in my dads GN is out of a monte SS... stock 200 in a regal isnt going to meet your expectations as it is... if at all possible, start with the valve body from a monte ss or a gn.

Building a BB Buick can prove its streetabilty and easy on the pocket (except when it comes to the gas mileage.) I can safely say I had less than 2000 bones in my car and it went a consistantly in the high 12's. Drove it everyday to school and work. It was a stock 455 with new rings, bearings, and a very mild cam with rebuilt stock 72 heads. That a set of headers, intake, $100 PAW converter and a 3.90 gear in an 8.5 was all it took took to put me in the high twelves on a set of MT ET streets. At the time, I did it all with a job bagging groceries.

 

My opinion fwiw. p TA Performance is high end and yes high dollar. There are other experienced Buick engine builders that could come up with a build that would meet the rough goals and budget you have put together so far. I am not saying you need to look for a Buick motor and pursue this just making a point. Tri Shield Performance has an excellent and very informative site. Like TA they don't promote cutting corners or budget builds so his setups tend to be pricey but well tested and probably well worth it if you have that kind of budget.

Despite what you may have gathered from my other posts I am not anti Chevy. Just as stated somewhat tired of seeing them put in everything without even considering often even steping over other motors. As an example I know a new intake manifold for a sbc is a lot less than one for sbb. But the labor for machining and engine assembly should come out about the same if you find the right help/shop. The total cost of a comparable motor does not have to be that much more.

Obviously with having put a Cad engine in my Olds I am not a die hard purist. As a power to cost example my goal was 509HP with 575TQ for half the cost of a fully assembled new 502 502 Chevy. So far without having dialed in the timing & carberation etc I am about 50HP & maybe 25TQ shy estimating based on actual trap speed weight & gearing useing the online calculators. My total machine & parts cost to match the 502 was $3,512. But my core was free and the engine assembly was free and those are things that would not likely be free for someone else. Also it took more time to locate all the parts I needed for the swap all of which includes risk. Buying and or magnafluxing/machineing a block/crank etc and then finding it unuseable. I also I have no warranty which is certainly worth something. Also at the time I built mine there was no on the shelf header for the Cad into a G-body whereas I would suspect their is for the BBC/SBC into g-body. Naturally I am sure someone can come up with some kind of comparable or better power to price example useing a BBB or big small chevy for that matter. Somebody somewhere at least on paper can top anything.

Lastly when somebody normally says I want a small block for a fast reliable inexpensive pump gas street car it is often due to mileage price or weight. Well I don't know about the sb price savings when you add in the converter gears and valve train etc upkeep. Anything that requires hi compression and that you spin the snot out of it to make power has durability maintenence and hi performance parts costs. Its a trade off. Carb to pan water pump to cast exhaust manifolds the big Cad weighs only 599lbs with the cast intake. Not a lot more than an equally set up cast intake sbc. My Cutlass still has the original springs as it came with an Olds 307. But I do have the battery in the trunk and an aluminum intake. Mileage well I have a 2004R with lock up converter 3.42 gears 28 tall tire a Q-jet and a reasonable cam. I recently made 17mpg on a road trip. The same mileage I got with the 307. This suggests to me that my setup is a little more efficient than the 307 otherwise all things being equal the smaller motor should get a little better mileage but not a lot as it requires roughly the same power to push the same car down the road.

 

I like the idea of using a bbb 455 for my project.

Oddly enough as I am writing this I just got a call back from a yard with a bbb 455.

What do I need to complete this swap? I read the swap article and it seems like the mounting brackets require some measuring and fab work to make fit.

Anyhow I am going to keep looking for info, hook me up with anything I might need to know.

I will probably go pick this engine up tomorrow.

 

One other thing, the engine I found is a 455 from a 1970 buick electra.

 

well that motor would be a great starting point. the only motor you could put in your car that you wouldnt need to mesure and set new mounts would be another olds motor, 350 or 403 so you mine as well put the buick motor in. if you stay with exhaust manifolds instead of headers, it would be a pretty easy swap.

 

I don't mind working with the mounts.

What about the use of headers, what kind of work needs to be done to make them fit?

After doing some checking I found that the 70' 455 makes 350 hp and 510 tq, is this correct?

If I use the manifolds in place of headers what kind of power diference would there be?

I am looking at an engine rebuild for the 455 then adding a TA 284-88H cam and edelbrock intake manifold and a 750 cfm carb.

 

Don Eggers used shorty's from TA on his 83 T-type. He had to make a few clearance dents but they worked fine. I think the biggest problem is the upper control arms. I think Global West makes tubular upper a-arms that can accomodate headers better.

The motor specs you list are right for a 70. Same guy ran a 13.1 with his 70 Skylark with a 70 SF motor (same thing you got, even if it says SR). He home ported the heads with stock valves, used a Edelbrok Performer intake, and iron manifolds. Everything else was stock (cam, pistons, valve train, bottom end-except for the oiling mods). The rear was a 3.08 posi. So iron manifolds aren't all that bad. Besides Greg Gessler ran an 11.08 not so long ago with his iron manifolds (intake and exhaust). Not familiar with the cam you listed but I know you'll need at least an 850 cfm carb. If you use a Quadrajet an 800 cfm will be fine. If you don't have one you can modify a 750cfm to make over 900 cfm, but that takes alot of tinkering.

If the motor turns out OK, and you decide to just rering it and put new rods and mains in, be sure to upgrade the oil pickup tube to 5/8 and enlarge the oil passage from the pickup tube to the oil pump. Buicks are very sensitive when it comes to oiling. Ask a Buick guy about this, DON'T ask a Chevy guy, they have no idea what's going on in this area.

 

ideas

You can easily runs low 13s high 12s with a budget built 455. Look around for deals and used parts you can go a lot further than buying new and be just as good. as far as a 200r4 im with the others there nice but an budget a 350 or 400 is going to be much more dependable.

 

THat's a darn good start! :TU: All 70 455 motors are 10:5. Do the oiling mods for this motor. The most important mod is the pickup tube, and I would pickup a booster plate. Good Luck :beer