Starter catching and or noise stop turning.

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by StKing, Jul 20, 2021.

Page 1 of 3
  1. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    Hey guys,

    Tried to fire up my car today after putting it back together and the starter keeps catching. It looks like the plate behind the starter gear is hitting the flywheel? Any ideas?

    I’ll up load a video shortly
     

    Attached Files:

    StKing, Jul 20, 2021
    #1
  2. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Totally bananas

    You need the proper starter mount bolts and you have to have the correct lash.

    I use a paperclip that is .040 to check.

    If you have the incorrect bolts the starter can twist enough under load to tweak it, and then it be "out" of spec.
    Sometimes close enough to be "intermittent" clashing, grinding or hanging.

    I am on the road, so I cannot look up the info from the manual and post picks of installing,

    The bolts are knurled at the shank from the bottom of the head, for about 1/2-1 inch.

    Let us know what they look like.
     
    TrunkMonkey, Jul 20, 2021
    #2
  3. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    I have no idea what that means.
     
    Schurkey, Jul 20, 2021
    #3
    ranger likes this.
  4. Dr. Roger

    Dr. Roger Stock enthusiast

    Starter likely needs shims. Were some removed when it was disassembled? If you buy a new starter, it usually comes with shims and directions on their placement.
     
    Dr. Roger, Jul 20, 2021
    #4
  5. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    Here are the bolts I was using.

    image.jpg
     
    StKing, Jul 20, 2021
    #5
    ranger likes this.
  6. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member



    Here’s a video of it in action.
     
    StKing, Jul 20, 2021
    #6
    ranger likes this.
  7. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    I added a shim’s still had the same problem.
     
    StKing, Jul 20, 2021
    #7
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I ran into this same problem years ago. The starter pinion gear is too close to the flex plate teeth. In a stock starter, you can't shim for that. You can shim for backlash, but not pinion clearance. The problem is the flex plate. I have heard of this with the flex plate you are using. (JW the Wheel) My solution was to use a Robb Mc starter.

    https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/buick_starter.html

    That starter uses a separate mounting block that allows you to use shims between the starter body, and the mounting block, to effectively back the pinion away from the flex plate teeth.

    Read my posts in this thread,

    https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/another-starter-thread.326189/#post-2728584

    The problem is some aftermarket flex plates have no offset, they are flat, and this places the teeth too close to the starter pinion gear. The flex plate that originally came on my engine was an SFI unit, and it was flat.

    Flexplate3.JPG
    When I swapped in my 9.5" converter, I took the opportunity to change out my flex plate to the one that Jim uses in his latest engines. See the offset built into it? (like stock flex plates)
    NewFlexplate.JPG
    After installing the new flex plate, I had to remove both shims because the pinion gear was now too FAR from the flex plate.

    So you have two options, change your flex plate, or change your starter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    LARRY70GS, Jul 21, 2021
    #8
  9. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    Thats a cool vid
     
    Mark Demko, Jul 21, 2021
    #9
    Waterboy and StKing like this.
  10. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    It is, you can actually see the pinion extending way too far. It can't pull back enough to clear the flex plate teeth as the engine starts. You can also see the metal flecks from damage to one or both gears.

    flexplate.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    LARRY70GS, Jul 21, 2021
    #10
    Waterboy and TrunkMonkey like this.
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Here's a stock flex plate (bottom), and the flat one I removed (top)

    Flexplate2.JPG

    See the offset on the stock one?
     
    LARRY70GS, Jul 21, 2021
    #11
    Dadrider and StKing like this.
  12. stellar

    stellar Well-Known Member

    looks like the wrong starter
     
    stellar, Jul 21, 2021
    #12
  13. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    Is there anything you don't know?? I really appreciate your help. I may buy a different starter but for now, I took it to my buddy's shop and we tore apart the starter and made an additional 3/16 spacer on his lathe. The spacer works and I was able to start up the motor without any binding. I only ran it a few times but if it does start binding in the future for some reason I'll make a larger spacer, maybe 1/4 this time. That or just buy the new starter.

    The good news is I got the motor fired which is really exciting. I'm having some popping out of the exhaust and I think my plug wires might be bad as I saw some arching at the top of the cap. New plugs ordered and well see if that helps.

    unnamed (2).jpg

    unnamed (1).jpg unnamed.jpg
     
    StKing, Jul 22, 2021
    #13
    Waterboy, Dadrider and Mark Demko like this.
  14. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Very Good, there is more than one way to solve a problem. That should work just fine. 3/16" is plenty. I needed 1/8", so you have more. You might want to modify another starter in case you need a replacement in the future.

    Oh, and BTW, there is plenty I don't know. V8buick never fails to make me smarter, I learn something new here all the time.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    LARRY70GS, Jul 22, 2021
    #14
    FLGS400, Waterboy, Dadrider and 2 others like this.
  15. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    StKing, Nov 7, 2021
    #15
  16. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    The starter Bendix/starter drive is N/G. Replace with new part.

    Tom T.
     
    telriv, Nov 7, 2021
    #16
    Schurkey likes this.
  17. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    Agreed. Starter one-way clutch (starter drive, "Bendix") has failed.

    MOST folks replace the entire starter motor, with solenoid. But the drive should be available separately. If available, I always choose the "5-roller" drives instead of the cheaper "4-roller" units.

    Depending on the age/miles on the starter, while you have it apart for the drive, might as well verify/replace the two bushings, the shift fork, the brushes, maybe the leather washer. And disassemble the solenoid to polish the contacts inside.
     
    Schurkey, Nov 7, 2021
    #17
    Waterboy likes this.
  18. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    Decided to go with the RobbMc starter so I decided to email him to make sure everything would line up. He had me take some measurements. But then said...

    "That is roughly 3/4" (.75") which is 1/4" (6.35 mm) less than the OEM specification.
    Unfortunately our starter can only be shimmed a maximum of 1/8" (3.18 mm) so our starter will not work.
    Sorry to say so but I do not think you'll find an off-the-shelf starter that will work. I am surprised that the ring gear is so far from the stock location.
    Any chance the flexplate is on backwards?"

    Its not on backwards so I wanted to see if you had any other tricks you used to make it work?

    Starter.jpg
    Starter2.jpg
     
    StKing, Nov 11, 2021
    #18
  19. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Seems to me you need to change the flex plate.
     
    LARRY70GS, Nov 12, 2021
    #19
  20. StKing

    StKing Well-Known Member

    It’d be very preferable to avoid that. The stock starter with the spacer works so I’m surprised the RobbMc starter won’t work.
     
    StKing, Nov 12, 2021
    #20
Page 1 of 3

Share This Page