Should I buy this GS Convertible?

Discussion in 'The ragtop shop' started by smokenm, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. smokenm

    smokenm Laugh out Loud Today

    65 Gs

    Here are two codes I got from this car. It is tough to move around it since it sits behind and up against a fence. There are alot of vehicles surrounding it so it cannot be moved to check it out. Only if I get serious will that happen. I will go back and try to get more information along with, hopefully, the build sheet behind the back seat. I will let you all know where this goes and if I don't buy it, I will release all info and contacts.

    This number was on the driver side engine head. 1196914
    VIN inside of Driver door is: 444675K129471
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2005
  2. Mark Ascher

    Mark Ascher 65GS.com

    The 65 GS cars were built in all plants producing the a-bodies, not Flint only. From the photos, it certainly looks like a GS to me.
     
  3. smokenm

    smokenm Laugh out Loud Today

    From the horses mouth

    Ok guys here is the scoop on this 1965 Skylark or GS. I met today with the owner and we went over a couple of things. I have some updated photos also below. He claims that he ordered a new Skylark in 1965 and since it was at year-end (7-14-65) when it was built Buick had run out of some parts so they replaced them with a GS order at no additional costs to the buyer. The purchase order (below) showed that he had ordered a small block with 250 hp and a 4 speed. He also wanted bucket seats so he upgraded. GM also substituted at no extra charge a big block and he was happy about that except that he also had to settle for a 3-speed. I do not know if the numbers I have document all of this but that is the word of the original owner and he seems to be a pretty honest fellow. The owner of the body shop where this car is parked is a childhood friend and said he was with him when all this was communicated and that is also how he understands this car was built. That is why they think it may be rarer than some but I told them no matter what happened, it had to be documented for the value to be there. I checked the numbers on the front of the block as some of you suggested and they match the Vehicle numbers on the driver door. I am puzzled when some comments on v8buick.com say all GS were built in Flint and this one was appears to have been built in KC if that is what the K is for in the middle of the V#. I also located the protecto-plate that was still in the glove box. I will need help here decoding it. Here is the numbers: Let's hear that feedback.

    13-901
    7-14-65
    5K129471


    LR556 444675K129471
    KF963 KC01223
    L1154S (can't tell if 2nd is a T or 1)
    C14 GS3

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/PurchaseOrder.jpg
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/PurchOrderwithupgrades.jpg
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/ProtectoPlate.jpg
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/Cars027.jpg
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/Cars021.jpg
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/Cars017.jpg
    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/smokenm/Cars014.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2005
  4. Mister T

    Mister T Just truckin' around

    Thanks for clearing that up Mark..................me and my big mouth :rolleyes:

    Mike, I just got corrected on build plant locations. :Dou: :spank:

    Looks more and more like it could very well be a legit car. :TU:
     
  5. Mark Ascher

    Mark Ascher 65GS.com

    Tom,
    The a-bodies were assembled in Flint, Fremont, Baltimore and Kansas City. Is that your car in your avatar?
    I've looked over all the pictures he posted, that car looks legit to me. Thats definately a rare one.

    Mark
     
  6. Mister T

    Mister T Just truckin' around

    Mark, yes that is my 65 in my avatar. That pic is from a 1997 calendar which featured my car in May.
     
  7. Mark Ascher

    Mark Ascher 65GS.com

    Tom,
    I have about 5 or 6 copies of that calendar. I blew one up and it's been in my garage since 97! Mine's the same color. It had a vinyl top, but I'm painting the top black for the restoration. Black interior on mine though. That photo of your car gave me much inspiration over the last few years.

    Mark
     
  8. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    Well, thats a weird story thats for sure! Maybe Buick had a 3 sp gran sport that fit his order and sold it - you know, like a salesman bs story???
    But the Flint Only idea applies to the '70 Stage 1 cars and Wildcat 4-speeds.
    Ted
     
  9. Mark Ascher

    Mark Ascher 65GS.com

    Ted, thats exactly what I thought!

    Mark
     
  10. Mister T

    Mister T Just truckin' around

    Wow Mark, that's a cool story. :TU: I just looked at that calendar again, Memorable Muscle it was called. Makes me glad my car could provide inspiration for your resto. Kinda wish it was still as pristine as that photo.

    Mine needs some tlc, and a new paint job, hopefully next year. It was originally midnight aqua, with an arctic white roof. Still pondering a return to those colors.

    Ted, thanks for really clearing the Flint built car issue up for me, I remembered something unique about Flint GS's, just forgot that they were Stage 1's. :Dou: I'll go quietly now. :pp

    Mike, looking at those new pics makes me think it is legit, I say buy it, buy it soon, then again, I've been wrong in this thread once already. :laugh:
     
  11. WE1

    WE1 Well-Known Member

    Thought I'd chime in on that 65 Gran Sport conv. 3 spd. The Gran Sport was just an option on the Skylark. So the VIN won't denote it being anything other than a Skylark. The story of it being outfitted with some GS options and just a regular Skylark just doesn't hold water. I think some memories are fading with the owner and body shop folks. That happens with most of us eventually. The Gran Sports were built in several plants in 65 as was noted earlier. The only true Flint GS's are the GSX's and 69 Stage 1's. The original owner may have wanted the small block Skylark with a stick, but I'll bet since it was such a late order date somebody decided to sell him the Gran Sport that happened to be built already or in the process of being built. Which is lucky for the owner and whoever ends up with this car. One of 123 is rare in anybodies book. I think without much doubt it is a legit 65 Gran Sport conv. with the 3 spd. The purchase order showing the Hi-Po 300 engine with 250 hp, buckets & dual exh.was most likely something written up when he went in originally to order a Skylark and the paperwork was included in documentation he saved.
    Too many things different from a regular Skylark. The front fenders and trim being one. As the Skylarks had that extra hole for the side trim up in front of the squared port hole vents. The lack of any side trim down the body. The dash emblem, blanked out dash indicator panel (PRNDL), exterior emblems. If they substitued the big block instead of the 300 engine at no extra charge they wouldn't have included all the Gran Sport emblems. The rear gears will be 3.36 and could be posi or non posi. But all the manual trans cars came standard with the 3.36 gears. With steeper gears being available, but rarely ordered. And anything in the steeper gear range came with posi standard. The auto gears were 3.08. Then there's all the underhood stuff. The 401 (called a 400 in the Gran Sports), the unique 65/66 exhaust manifolds, the horn relay on the drivers side along with unique wiring harness and battery on drivers side. The radiator with its reversed (from the 300 or V-6 engine) inlet and outlet necks. Take a look at the front of the oil pan, there should be two metal tabs bolted to the oil pan bolts that the fuel line passes through to hold the line in place. There's plenty of other unique features, but thats just a cursory list from some photos. I'm sure it goes without saying as with several others of this group, I wish I had found this car. It wouldn't take but seconds to write that check, its a no-brainer. Somebody buy this car and fix it up as it deserves to be restored and preserved as a fairly unique bit of Buick Gran Sport history.
     
  12. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    I agree, it would take me a nanosecond to write that check :grin:

    (see third post :laugh: )

    Ted
     
  13. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    I'll second what Dave said!

    Here's a scan out of the 1965 Buick Service Bulletins showing the code breakdown for the p-o-p.

    Deciphering what you have:
    LR 556: 'LR' is the GS 400/401 engine, '556' is a production code
    KF 963: 'KF' is the 3 speed syncromesh used in the GS. (This code is listed in the speedo gear chart, also from '65 service bulletins) It's actually a Ford built toploader 3 speed trans. 963 is a production code.
    L1: Midnight Aqua, with white top
    154: White bucket seats....dunno what the 'S' is for
    C14: 2 speed wiper
    GS3: dunno?

    In general, if the engine sn matches the cars vin, and it's a code 'LR' block, it's a real GS. You also have the protecto plate which further confirms the GS components installed on this car.

    IT'S REAL!!!!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  14. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    The 1965 order form, showing the A9 Gran Sport option
     

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  15. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    and the back side...
     

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  16. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    My resume:

    BTW, here's the '65 4 speed convertible I bought in March. First pic is how I first saw it, and the 2nd pic is it after I dropped it on a spare chassis, and brought it home. I found it on ebay....parts of it were up for auction. I was VERY fortunate to make a deal and buy the complete car.
    It's a code I, Verde green, with a saddle (gold-brown) interior. :TU:
     

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  17. 65specialconver

    65specialconver kennedy-bell MIA

    toms car

    tom,i also have that picture of your car from the calender hanging in my shop :grin: my special is the same color,changed from factory white to black top,with the fawn interior.long winter days in the shop with not much to do,i find myself gazing at the picture,wishing mine looked that good :ball: next thing i know i am putting on my coat and rolling around on the ground,or poking in the engine bay or interior doing SOMETHING to get it back in shape.its pretty cool to have an inspiration of your car hanging on the wall,looking just the way you want it to!!! :TU: winter is here and i have a buttload of parts to install,i think i will go gaze at it some more for an well needed additude adjustment. :beer
     
  18. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    Well?? Did you buy it???????
     
  19. smokenm

    smokenm Laugh out Loud Today

    NO, but I got an option on it with first rights. I met with him and he even pulled out the original radio that he had in his garage. I offered to trade him a 1981 Malibu that is original with 45,000 miles but he declined. I guess I will have to wait until spring when I should have the $$$.
     
  20. PGBuick

    PGBuick Well-Known Member

    I concur with Mark Ascher. All the data you've shown here indicates this is the real deal. And it has interesting history to match. This car looks incredibly original, probably since it's the original owner. Lot's of work there to make it right though.

    Good luck!
    Patrick
     

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