Serious Motor Problems

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by FCOOFRAZ3, May 31, 2005.

  1. FCOOFRAZ3

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I finally got my engine cranked and tuned for a test pass and to no avail the damn thing started to get a blow by. It is puffing white smoke from everywhere. I was thinking either a head gasket or a compression ring not seating. Can somone help me. The build up is in combination help. When I first started it and tried it did not smoke or have a blow by but after one pass it started and then after another it got worst. The oil pressure was about 80 pounds at idle so can someone help please. I hates to take and tear this motor back down. They put the .038 thousands piston in a .040 block.
     
  2. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Hi "Fraz"....blue smoke is blow-by, white smoke is water (steam). So you probably have a loose bolt/stud or two that's allowing leakage somewhere. Have you done any retorquing? ESPECIALLY the head bolts/studs???

    That's the first thought that comes to mind but let us know if that is not the right track of thinking to be on.:TU:

    You may have even cracked a cylinder wall somewhere if it's more severe.:Do No:
     
  3. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Smoke..

    If it smokes that bad you would know if it was oil or water by the smell. Is there water in the oil? Water level down? If the blow by is bad then you will be blowing oil out the breather in the valve cover. Do a compression check. If the compression check fails then you at least have to pull the heads. If it is smoking that bad you will have to pull the heads anyways. But a check will point to which cylinder it is.
     
  4. FCOOFRAZ3

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    When I try to crank it it sounds like it is loosing comppression then it will start. The smoke is white when I see it. But it will blow oil out of the breather tube too. I was thinking that it was a head gasket or something. It ran too good at first to be a compression ring. It is more like a head gasket blown between the cylinders. The oil pressure was extremely high (80 lbs) I got it down to (40 lbs).
     
  5. Buick Dave

    Buick Dave Well-Known Member

    sounds like you are charging the crank case too....blown head gasket will blow oil and vapor out the breathers....happened to me at BG....re-torque the head bolts...you should anyway after atleast 2 cycles of having the car to operating temp...i have had to re-torque orange crushes up to 5 time so far...still getting some bolt movement....compression check will tell the tale.
    Good luck...been there....
     
  6. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Oil Pressure

    What is you oil pressure hot at 3000rpm? Are you running a bronze distributor gear? You need to on a race motor to keep high oil pressure from eating you cam gear. A ditributor gear is easy to change and cheep compaired to a cam. The bronze gear holds up real well. I'm still on my first one. It looks worn but the cam is like new. Well new other than the back lobe breaking thru the heat treatment. :rant:
     
  7. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    What did you torque your intake manifold bolts?

    -Bob Cunningham
     
  8. FCOOFRAZ3

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I didn't torque the intake bolts just snugged them down nice and tight. I really needs to know how many pounds to torque the heads and intake down to. I had them torqued down to about 100 pounds that is the heads. Oncw I get the head gaskets off how can I tell if they are blown. The driver side looks fine I still have to get the passenger side off. That is where I think that it is blown and number one cylinder looks cleaner that all the others I believe that is where it is at.

    Can blow by start after your first pass on the car. It had no blow by before I tried it out. It ran smooth and no smoke or anything that is why I think that it is a head gasket. Because if it was a ring or something it would have had signs from the start.
     
  9. FCOOFRAZ3

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I hope that I can clear the problem without doing another block.
     
  10. Tim

    Tim Silver Level contributor

    Just a quick thought, I had severe white smoke coming out of my 430 engine years ago, it turned out to be a blown transmission vacuum modulator sucking tranny fluid into the engine!!!!!
    An easy fix!
    Tim
     
  11. 72GSX

    72GSX Well-Known Member

    Are you sure the motor has never been overheated? I lost a fan belt on mine at the races and didn't notice till it was to late. It still ran good but would smoke and blow oil out of the dipstick. When I fill mine with coolant I have to leave the water temp guage sender loose and fill till coolant comes out of the sender fitting then tighten the sender and fill it the rest of the way. If I don't do this it gets air locked and temp guage jumps all over the place. I had to rering mine to fix it. Now after every pass I look at the temp guage and alternator light to make sure belt is still on. I have run this car for about 10 years now and never had a belt problem eccept for that one time, I had electric cooling fans on it the day the belt let go so maybe the fans put more load on the alternator and jumped the belt? I went back to the clutched fan and never had another belt problem. I also had a gasket go because of a soft stock head bolt, I found it when putting the heads back on, it would turn and turn and not click the torque wrench, I took the bolt out and it had stretched real bad in the threads, I found another bolt and it torqued up nice and solid and have not had another gasket problem. I use the felpro gaskets retorqed once after sitting a couple days on the enginge stand and then ounce after it gets warmed up good in the car. From what I have read it sounds like it has a major problem somewhere, Maybe it scored a piston or something like that? Just my 2 cents. Tom
     
  12. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Lifter galley...

    It not uncommon to blow a gasket into the lifter galley. If you already blew a gasket and you haven't even sprayed it, you need Cometic gaskets if you do plan on spraying it. If you didn't do a compression check or a leak down check then your just going to be guessing on what and where something went wrong unless you see something obvious. If you have a set of rings that are too tight, you could have broke a compression ring after it built up some heat or scuffed the bore badly. Either one will give you bad blow-by and smoke.
    I torque mine to 120ftlbs. I go thru a very gradual sequence. BUt I also didn't retorque at all and they held fine with nitrous. Just my application though.
     
  13. john hixon

    john hixon Well-Known Member

  14. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    There is a proper sequence for the intake bolts - I think the torque value is 55 ft-lbs. Don't guess.

    -Bob C.
     
  15. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?


    The 55ft-lbs is for the cast iron intakes. I wouldn't put that much to an aluminum intake...25-30 is sufficient...you are risking cracking a flange boss on aluminum with 55.

    Proper sequence...just like the heads....center out, side to side, back and forth in a criss-cross fashion. Bring the torque up in at least three (as equal as possible) stepped sequences. Be sure and lubricate the threads and under the bolt head. A dry bolt/nut will have inaccurate torque readings from the friction of dry threads alone.:Smarty:

    Example....

    1st time....10 ft-lbs all the way thru all bolts in sequence.
    2nd time....increased torque to 20 ft-lbs and do again.
    3rd time....increase to final torque and repeat.

    After a few heat-up/cool-down cycles recheck the final torque and correct if necessary!:TU:

    A final thought here.....

    The torque wrench you are using...DO NOT SKIMP HERE....you want a quality wrench if you expect quality readings! At the VERY LEAST buy yourself a new Craftsman torque wrench and the more it's used the more you need to have it calibrated by Sears. It's a minimal cost and I'd recommend you re-calibrate AT THE VERY MINIMUM once a year.:TU:
     
  16. FCOOFRAZ3

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I tore the heads off the motor and found that on the passenger side the head gaskets were blown into the lifter galley. They were blown on three of the four cylinders 2,4,and 8. I have gotten them back on and have torque them to 110 lbs.
     
  17. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Good to hear you've found the problem and resolved it!:TU:

    Now....be sure and keep retorquing till you no longer have ANY movement of the bolt heads/stud nuts.:Smarty:

    Good luck!:3gears:
     
  18. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    Glad to hear the problem has been discovered!
    Perhaps there are other variables here- when I have tried 25 ft-lbs, my manifolds ALWAYS leak. I have to go to 55. I've been doing this for 10-15 years, with no problems.

    I wonder if a different type of manifold gasket (I use the steel pan gasket) would act differently, or if heads that are heavily shaved might cause stresses.

    For what it's worth...

    -Bob C.
     
  19. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    And to further expand on the intake torque subject.......I've never put a torque wrench to my intake bolts in 15 years........
    Tigthen them,Then check them periodically thereafter...... :Do No:
     
  20. FCOOFRAZ3

    FCOOFRAZ3 Whiteboy

    I have gotten it back together and cranked it up. It sounds good but it needs some roller rockers on the motor. I can't adjust the valves the proper way with them stock rockers on the motor. But it revs good and has 40 lbs of oil pressure now. I had to cut the spring then turn the adjuster in some to achieve the 40 lbs. I really want this motor to run 6.50's or better on motor.
     

Share This Page