Running a filled block on the street

EDIT: scroll to post #18 to reveal this block was never filled and I was just looking at a head gasket. I think the thread produced great info either way.

As one project closes, I’m starting to toss the idea around on running a mystery 455 I bought off Facebook marketplace a year ago. The guy I bought it from in central NJ said it was run in a 70 stage bracket car for years before the guy tore down the car for restoration and never put it back together. I also recently acquired a set of gessler ported TA stage 1 SE’s from a friend and want to see them back in action.

The engine came:
70 455, decked (unknown amount) and filled
Bored .030
Speed pro 2362P 10:1 forged pistons
70 iron heads, stage 1 valves
Dual valve springs, adjustable pushrods
Aftermarket mechanical fuel pump, looks like a chromed robbmc, not saying it is I really don’t know.
Edelbrock B4B
Unknown cam

I’m thinking of pulling the front cover off this week and a few main caps to see what the crank measures and what shape it’s in.

In reading old threads on here from 2003-2005, it seems like some guys running filled blocks were purely drag cars and saw oil temps in the 250 degree range, while others seemed to have no issue with high oil temps. My question: Has anyone run a filled block on the street? Is this a F-around and find out situation? I may run it in my pro-touring car so ground clearance is an issue with a deep sump pan. I can always run an external oil cooler but I know that’s been a hot topic in years past as well. If this was a build from scratch situation, I wouldn’t even think about filling a block for a street car, but I also couldn’t get a block machined today for what I have total in this engine.

thanks for the help and for humoring me!

 

I have a 454 in a boat. The marine water pump uses rubber vanes. Over time, and with some abuse, the rubber vanes break. When they do, they push "downstream", migrating into the engine water jacket.

So I replace the rubber vane assembly in the water pump. Engine runs hotter than I'd prefer, but within acceptable limits...

...until the rpm goes above about 3500 rpm. Oil temp goes crazy. Engine coolant temp is uncomfortably high.

With poor coolant circulation in the blocked water jackets, oil temp at higher rpm was getting close to 300 degrees; 80 degrees or more hotter than the coolant.

I understand that this is not directly comparable to a grouted block, but once I dug all the rubber out of the block and coolant passages, I had to install a marine thermostat to get the engine coolant over 140 degrees, with oil temps to match. The bottom of the water jacket is a for-real oil cooler.

Install an oil temp gauge. I think you're gonna need an external oil cooler unless this engine is babied.

 

Good info. Thanks for sharing. The other alternative would be taking the rotating assembly out of this engine and putting it in the current 455 that’s in the car, which is also .030 over. I think I would rather just try it first and see what happens… I’ll dive deeper into it this week and report back

 

A filled block definitely hinders oil cooling,since you are taking it away from the bottom of the block,so you definitely need a good oil cooler. This is a basic steel-rod engine,so that part is OK. Is the a partial fill or how high is the block filled? I run a few partial-filled blocks on the street. I haven’t had any issues,but I also run good coolers. I am going to try it with an aluminum rod build,which I have always steered away from. If I don’t like what I see,then I will make a change. Some of the newer aluminum rods,like GRP,should handle this.

 

It’s filled to the deck surface… what oil cooler are you running or have had good experience with?

 

Maybe I am wrong, but if you're filled to the deck you'll need to run external cooling lines to the heads. There wont be a passage to the water pump inlets..

 

Louie,
I will be trying my Supercharged motor on the street as well. It is 3/4 filled. I was concerned with the oil temps on the track as well as the street so I decided to go with a "good" Derale cooler with a fan up front. Since my motor already has a remote oil filter,System One oil filter I also decided to get me an oil thermostat made by Earl,s. I used the 501ERL that bypasses the oil till it would get warm enough then it opens internally to let the oil go to the cooler and fan..Depending on your AN hose size,the Derale has different coolers..I agree with Joe about the external lines too.

 

Take the head gasket off of it, and use a flashlight, so we can see how far it is filled.. can't tell from that pic. If water cannot pass front to rear from the water inlets behind the timing cover, then your looking at a race only piece, as the entire cooling system is compromised. You will have to run feed lines to the rear of the intake manifold, so water can enter from unused water passages at the back of the intake, pass into the heads, and then flow forward to the water outlet on the front of the intake. That's fine for the strip, but I would question that on the street, even beyond the oil temp problems it will have, especially if it's fully filled. But I don't see any grout at the rear of the cylinder deck surface on the long slot.. so that's why I am questioning how full it actually is.

JW

 

This is a completely new world to me and already have learned a lot. I’ll get it torn down this week and report back. If that’s the case and it is *actually* a full fill, it will need to go to someone who can use it. I also am inevitably saving for the big HP motor with my stage 2 TE’s on the shelf, so it’s not like this is a forever build and therefore I wouldn’t want to invest all this time/money into running external cooling lines.

 

What cubic inch is this motor?

 

assuming stock crank/rods with old speed pro 2362p stock replacement forged pistons… 462 Cubic Inches. These pistons weren’t stamped .030 like other examples previously sold here, so I’m just making assumptions at this point and really need to measure

 

I run partial fill to bottom on water pump holes and have no issues driving to track and running low 10s. I use a Meziere pump and at lights it will cool off with electric fan on. I think the pump actually flows more water than a reg pump at idle. No oil temp gauge but hot oil pressure no lower than 20-25.
Obviously I would freak out if stuck in a backup in 90deg weather. Did drive it to Englishtown once 3hrs each way and pulled off and waited on a big backup on the NJ turnpike. Ran pump and fan with motor off and got down from 195 to 120deg.

 

195? You should have kept driving!

 

Wasn't moving and no point....didn't want to cook the oil and idle with big 608B cam......waited 30min and traffic started to move....

 

I am interested in an oil cooler. Can anyone post some specific information or part numbers of some recommended oil coolers and maybe some pics that shows installation as well. I have a 482 with a 1/2 filled block. I am thinking this would benefit me…..I am just starting to look into a cooler and really have no idea yet what it takes especially the plumbing part and what are the pros and cons of an external oil cooler as far as a street/strip car. ………if this should be a new thread excuse me and would an admin please move to a new thread? Thanks and sorry for the interruption.

 

No this is good, keep it in this thread. Pat posted above that he is running/going to run a derale cooler. What water temps are you running currently? Do you have an oil temp gauge? Deep sumped pan?

 

Start here..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15875

That's why most guys don't want to use one.. the correct one is expensive, and you haven't bought the oil filter adapter, a remote oil filter base, and all the fittings and lines.. You will easily have $500+ into a good setup.

JW

 

So I’m dumb and read a YouTube comment which lead me to think the block was filled. It was just the head gasket like you said Jim… but at least it makes me feel better about running it on the street! Going to post the requested photos in this reply then wanted to get thoughts on what the tear down indicated. Did they use the wrong head gasket or is it supposed to cover those holes? I just had the heads off on my dad’s 72 and can’t remember.. It looks like the same felpro 11998 I have in stock

 

Nothing obvious in the tear down so far. Confirmed .030 over. The weirdest thing is that the water pump was shearing metal out of the timing cover. Haven’t seen one like this before.. I found a few pieces in the oil pan.

I took off the thrust main and #4 and thought they looked fine. The crank is .020 on the mains. I didn’t get a chance to take out a rod bearing yet. Cam lobes and lifters look good. Don’t love the cam bearings. I think it’s a Schneider cam? Pic below. 290-10H
Double roller timing chain had a little play. It is a Holley 12-862 fuel pump as Frank pointed out. It also has an external oil line in front of the flex plate.. I’m guessing a popular way to improve oiling in the day?

 

Is the water pump bearing bad? If it's not, maybe it's from the previous pump.