I took out the rods and crank today and found that after about 15-20 passes the bearings look like junk. Got deep scratches in em like they were oil starved at times.The rest of em looked okay enough to reuse but I might as well buy a new set. I am going to get the new bottom end taken care enough to where I'm not in it every 6 months so I want to resolve the rod oiling problem. What is a definite fix for it ? The current setup didnt make as much power as I'm building for now so I know I'll be heading for trouble if I dont fix it now. I have used 20-50 synthetic since it was broken in,never used any oil,always had good pressure...15 lbs hot at 1000rpm idle and 80 lbs or so in high gear.I use a dinosoar pan ( 1 inch deeper sump w/extended pickup) new TA oil pump kit with booster plate and adjustable deal on the spring. I use a solid cam so can I restrict oil to it and redirect oil to the back 2 rods? Thanks for the help...fish :beer
Fish, I am fairly new to the 455 engine , but are you sure you dont have a restriction to that journal? Do you have enough clearance? Jeff
Hi Guys, Fish.....are you taking your pressure reading from the stock front-of-the-block position? If so, generally you will have around 10-15psi drop by the time the oil makes it's way back the "the last place to get oil'd".....#7 & 8 rod bearings. Make yourself a rear-feed line with a -06AN line running from the stock pressure unit hole back thru the bellhousing portion of the block and feed into the passenger side lifter galley. This will equalize the pressure from front to rear. Also drill and tap for 1/8" NPT and take your new oil pressure readings from the back of the block above the new feed line. Here are a few pic's for you... BTW....In my opinion, 20W50 is WAY to thick and will starve those (all actually) bearings till it totally reaches operating temp...at least 180*. The only way you can know that is to also install a temp gauge bung into the sump of the pan. You will be absolutely amazed at how long it can take to get temperature into the oil to make it safe to rev! I would run NO MORE than 10W40 if I were you...you are going to save your cam/distributor gears in the long run also.:TU: Hope this helps....
oil fix.... www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=10746&page=1&pp=25 Here is where I like to get oil to feed the back of the block. It is at the intersection of the oilbypass and oil passage off the filter. This gets the oil before it goes thru all the 90 degree turns in the front cover and block. I only use a #6 since it is only a booster line and it worked great. I ran a single line and used a small hole saw to get the fitting through in the same place as Kerry put a union. Either method works, just two different ways of doing it. if you only has problems with the oil you used on the 7/8 bearing than this will fix that. Another thing, get the 3/4 groove main bearing with the extra oil feed holes at 45 degrees. You will have to groove the saddle in the block but is an excellent mod to help get oil to the rods.
Thanks guys... I read all of the posts on this and the link Rick sent. I can honestly say, I have a brain cramp. That is gonna take some time to digest..wow. Those are some scientific setups I see on there. I found that the main bearings are covering the oil feed holes some and I reckon I'll grind em so they match and open the depth up some. Can I install a feed line from the original oil pressure port and run it into the pipe plug hole in the back? Can I take oil pressure off one of those pipe plugs also? I guess I can get the 3/4 groove main bearings even though I was goin to reuse em,but if it helps I'll do it. By the way the dist.gear is worn down bad,but I have another one. I guess what I'm asking is ,can I get by with the simple mods and not tear stuff up? I dont feel confident drillin all over the block and modifying the oil pump cover. Thats just me being honest. I appreciate the info guys...this time ya went wayyyy over my head,but hopefully I'll get my head wrapped around it. I'll be ordering the connecting rods thursday and from there the bearings and some other stuff. The shop will be boring ,honing,and balancing it this time.Thanks again..fish :beer
Oiling the Buick... Yes, keeping it simple will still work. You can run a line from the pressure port on the side of the block to the rear. They are both threaded to all you have to do is install NPT fittings and lines. Off the side of the block, get a fitting that has a 1/8" NPT in the side of it so you can run an oil pressure gauge off it. Open up the main bearings to match the oil passages is all you need to do. The 3/4 groove bearing is the only way to go in my book as are the good TA grooved cam bearings. It gets expensive quick, don't it? :shock: On the front cover, what work have you done to the oil passages to take the load off the pump? A restrictive front cover can put a lot of load on the pump from pressure that doesn't get to the motor which means more wear on the distributor gears. Always run a bronze gear, they wear the same and keep the cam from getting ate up. I ran a oil line to my distributor gear to keep the wear down. A System One reusable oil filter is a very good item to get. It flows more oil thru the filter and keeps oil from going thru the bypass. It will keep debris out of your bearings. Plus you can pull it apart and check it to see if you hurt the motor or not. I feel with a System One oil filter that you can plug the bypass. I never had one since they were on back order for so long I couldn't get my hands on one. Jeg's carries them now.
Hi Kerry and others, Kerry can I pick your brain a little? The motor in my car has a 360 groove behind the front cam bearing and a 180 groove behind the back cam bearing so oil can get from pass side to drivers side at both ends. I also drilled some of the feed holes to the main bearings but it has been so long I can't remember which ones and how big they are now, I think all of them but the front one. Do you think this is a good setup for a motor under 600hp? I like the oil line setup alot but with the block I have with the grooves cut in the cam bearing holes I don't know if I can or need the oil line setup. I did this block many years ago before all the grooved cam bearings or this forum was here so all I had to go by was the Buick book. I have my front cover holes opened up and the cover opened up and "ported" also, the hole into the block from the cover is also opened up to match the cover. PS. I have always run the stock Clevite cam bearings and never had one go bad yet. I plugged the bypass in the cover too but I hear some people say that they collapse the insides of the filters this way. I run the K&N with 10/30 mobile 1 and make sure its good and warm before I drive it and so far I haven't had a filter problem. My oil pressure guage is rock steady down the drag strip shifting at 5900. Tom W
Hi Guys, Tom....Do you take your pressure from the front (stock location) or the rear of the block? Ok...In your mind think of the oil's travel path from the pump...out of the pump..into the block with a sharp 90* turn then up to the first cam bearing which some bleeds off to feed it and fill the driver's side lifter gallery and down to the #1 main and #1 rod bearing. Then from there it's another 90* turn into the passenger side lifter gallery and another 90* turn on to the #2 main which feeds #'s 2 & 3 rod bearings. Then onto another 90* turn to feed the #3 main which feeds #'s 4 & 5 rod bearings. Continuing down the gallery to make another 90* turn to feed the #4 main and #'s 6 & 7 rod bearings. Then finally another 90* turn into the #5 main to feed #8 rod bearing. All while also lubing the other 4 cam bearings and filling all 16 lifters and pushrods up to the valve train. As you can probably see, there are alot of "side paths" for that oil to take and fill which bleeds off valuable pressure with each and every turn by the time it makes all the way back to the rear of the engine. It can easily be down by 10-15 psi at that point! That's why it's so important to know the pressure at the back of the block vs the front..which is right out of the oil pump itself so it WILL read it's highest! My thinking, as well as many other of our finest V8 members believe that bypassing all those turns and bleed off areas, by running another direct-feed line to the back equalizes the pressure completely thruout the block. So that the #5 main and #'s 7 & 8 rods recieve as much oil volume and pressure as the #1 main and #'s 1 & 2 rods have always had the luxury of! If this analogy will help.....think of a long 100 ft. garden hose that has several smaller hoses all linked into it's length along the way. Pressure will not be as much at the end of that 100 length as at the faucet without opening any of the smaller hoses. Now open them one-by-one and you will bleed off more and more by continuing to give the water new side-paths to follow. How much pressure do you think you'll have at the end of that 100 ft length then?o No: Hope this helps... Rick or anyone else who may notice I've neglected something please feel free to add.:TU: Sorry forgot to add....The grooves behind the cam bearings will only equalize the pressure between the passenger side and driver's side lifter gallery. It's main purpose is to keep the driver's side lifters from chattering and VERY LITTLE more. It is NOT even close to a fix IMHO for feeding the mains and rods and equalizing pressure thruout the block.
Thanks Kerry, Your info helps me alot. Yes I am taking pressure at the front. Can you see any problems with installing the oil line with the grooved block? EDIT I must have been half asleep when looking at the pictures last night, I thought the line was going to the drivers side hole in the back so I got mixed up on the purpose of the line, after your discription it makes alot more sence to me now. My brain is getting slow in my old age I guess lol. Thanks, Tom
You're welcome Tom. I see no problems with adding the extra feed line to the rear. The grooves already in your block really only serve the purpose of equalizing pressure & volume between the lifter galleries so the driver's side is not starved should the front cam bearing be wiped closing off oil and causing those lifters to chatter and even loose lash/pre-load (hydraulic).
I am thinking of pulling the motor this spring to check the bottom end, So it would be a good time to install the oil line. Is the fitting in the back a normal fitting or a special one to clear stuff back there. Will Summit or Jegs have the correct stuff to install it? While the motor is out I want to look into modifying the cross member to give some more room to get pan out with motor in the car. Tom W
Hi Guys, Tom....I drilled out the front passage between the stock sending unit and the pass. side lifter gallery to 7/16" I believe stopping just short of the cam bearing. I then re-tapped the stock pressure gauge hole to 3/8"NPT up from the stock 1/4"NPT (you do not absolutely have to do this!). From there, after you decided whether or not it's going to stay 1/4"NPT or 3/8"NPT, purchase the proper pipe-to-(either -06 or -08AN) straight, a 90* hose end, three feet of hose will work here with a little left over after routing it up and over the motor mount. Then you need a 45* hose end and a bulkhead fitting with the appropriate nut placed on the outside of the bellhousing. Now inside of the bellhousing going from the bulkhead fitting...another 45* hose end and about a foot of hose with a straight hose end going into a forged 90* AN-to-pipe into the passenger side lifter gallery. Just so everyone knows... I don't like introducing a hard (rigid) 90* again with the forged fitting but there is not room to use a straight fitting with a 90* hose end due to clearance issue with the flexplate/flywheel or believe me, I would have! Expect to have to tap deeper...do so only a little at a time so you not go too deep. If you tap to deep the fitting will not seal properly. I tapped two threads at a time till I got close then one thread to "fine tune it" so the fitting would also seal and point straight down at the same time. Over the course of doing this I mocked the crank and flexplate/flywheel up several times to make sure everything cleared. It can be slow so TAKE YOUR TIME! If you study my pic's closely you will see, as Rick mentioned, that I used 3/8" NPT and -08AN line. I also (from the rear of the block) drilled the lifter gallery into meet the factory step-down that was purposely put there in an attempt to increase pressure from the middle main location back. It is now 1/2" the entire length of the gallery instead of stepping-down to 3/8". Now...this WAS PROBABLY NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY but I did it anyway as it will not hurt and also the fact that I wanted to feed with a -08 (1/2") vs the smaller -06 (3/8"). You can go either way and I will admit that the -06 route is more-than-likely absolutley sufficient but I have a thing about trying to "bulletproof"...aka...over-build everything when it comes to my 455's. Thats' just me.:grin: The block in the pic's above was initially intended to support my EFI'd Procharger for some serious HP but then the BullDog was announced and I decided to get me a cheap Regal and use it instead. If that block would have been dedicated for the Regal from the beginning I would have only went with the -06AN stuff. So I guess to make your list short and more easily accessible... (4) feet of hose (1) NPT-to-AN fitting (2) 90* hose ends (2) 45* hose ends (1) bulkhead fitting (1) bulkhead nut (1) 90* forged AN-to-NPT fitting Hope this helps.... Please step-in and add to if anything is noticed that I may have missed here! Thanks Guys..:TU:
I was affraid you would say I might have to tap the rear hole to get the fitting in the right spot. I didn't want to pull the motor all apart to install this line and I don't know how I would keep the metal chips out of the motor while tapping the hole. If anyone has a idea how to do it please let me know. Tom
This is an awsome thread. I've cleared up alot of questions that I had about this mod. Tom, if you're going to pull the motor, are you going to just check the bottom end? If you plan to pull the cam, you can pull the plugs on the front and rear of the passenger oil galley and use an engine cleaning brush(the long one that you clean oil gallies with) inserted from the front and stop just shy(about 3/4") of the rear plug and fill the galley with shaving cream. When done tapping, just push the brush thru and clean it with carb cleaner before you pull it back thru. If you don't have a brush, a shot gun cleaning rod will do fine with a shot gun cleaning patch on the end will do the same thing. Just a thought.
I am planning on just dropping the pan and looking around in there.I hope everything is OK yet. The car was slowing down each run at the end of last year, I think the trans might be the problem but I want to make sure there isn't a bearing starting to go or any other problems in there. I don't know for sure yet but I might try a different cam also so if I pull the cam then I can do like you said to tap the holes. Tom
Kerry I've never heard of anyone drilling the driver's side gallery. It's 3/8's like the back of the passenger side. Any advantages to drilling the driver's side? Is there any other way of equalizing pressure to the driver's side w/o grooving the block at #1 cam bearing?
