power tour is coming to town this summer so I have to work on my cooling system, again. The current rad is one pass 2 core alum from summit, off brand. I tried 5 different shroud configurations and two electric fans. I have the mez electric water pump. If it is cooler than 70 deg I can drive anywhere. After 70 I get about 10 miles and then I get to pull over for a half hour. I dont want to spend a grand either. 650 hp at the crank. weight is a concern. Any favorite brands you might suggest? Double pass style any good?
I got a 454 in my '78 El Camino, 4 speed, 3.42 gears. It has an F-body aluminum/plastic radiator and shroud with stock electric fan. Works like a champ. Running a 180 thermostat. No AC.
Is it possible that at 650 HP you have reached the point where the block is too thin and I imagine you have iron heads? Possible that you need a very big radiator and overflow tank
This intrigues me - Ive been thinking about trying this rad setup for a while now and just can't come to spending the $100 in hopes it would work - seems like most are happy with them though in their gbodies - I might now that you say you've got a 454 using - ?? though, is the motor built or just stock?
stage 2 track elim alum heads. it does have an overflow tank. if it gets hot it will flow back and forth between the two. I have enough room on both sides of the rad to add anoter 6-8" in width for a larger rad. The cap is darn near touching the hood so its tall enough.
FYI not running a Tstat will make a car run hotter not cooler. The water needs to have the restriction to keep the water in the rad long enough for it to cool off. Ever time I have a car that ran hot I end up fighting it for a long time. On my post sedan race car I ran an electric WP and large electric fan it came with no shroud. After a mishap at BG where the top plate gave up and at the big end of the track the rad was shoved into the WP I went to the vendors are and found a 73 shroud, a 3 core rad and a clutch fan. The car ran 20 degrees cooler the rest of the day
After going round and round with Don at Alumitech on my 65 with its 462 transplant and one of his brand new 65 radiators Don said lets pull the thermostat and sent me a huge written dissertation on why its a common fallacy and that it wouldnt run hotter ....against my better judgement I did what he said ..... my car runs DEFINITELY ALOT cooler without it and doesnt temp creep at idle and never overheats. I tried Dual Electric fans, shroud, no shroud , 6 blade vs 7 blade factory fans , 2 clutchless Flex fans a stock brand new clutch and finally the best combo on my car in Florida was a factory 6 blade fan, factory shroud and a brand new Suburban fan clutch alot of the guys use on here and suggested with no stat at Dons urging. My experience. From DeeVeeEights post- link below http://www.stewartcomponents.com/tech_tips/Tech_Tips_3.htm " A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures. Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it."
Best bet is a factory fan with a HD thermostatic clutch, and a shroud. If you must run electric, choose an OEM fan. Biggest "sucker" I found is the Motorcraft RF64. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=RF64+fan&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= This works for me and an F body radiator. Make sure your wiring and alternator is up to the task. Good luck, ElectraJim
http://www.stewartcomponents.com/Tech_Tips.htm I ended up installing a Stewart high volume water pump on one of my problem cars, it definitely helped.
Power Tour? When and Where. Count me in. :3gears: As for your cooling I had similar probs, got an aluminum direct fit and never had a problem since. Running mechanical fan and shroud. I think the other gentleman might be right. How thin are your walls?
The bore is only .038" over and we did check the wall thinkness on this block and it was pretty good. '76 block I think.... I think I am just going to pull the rad and use it on my soon to be built sbc turbo motor in my chevelle.. My guess is a larer alum rad a good shroud should do it. I think its just to small at this point.
I started with the proliance f-body radiator from summit, plastic tanks and one alum core, it got up and over 210 very easily, I have an estimated 500 hp and not the 650 you are at, but I then went with another F-body rad from summit, I think it was their own brand and it is a two core all alluminum welded rad, It is actually made by northern and is stamped on one of the sides, this one works ok, my only problem is that in warmer temps the HD fan clutch doesn't engage as soon as I would like it to. I have a factory shroud and a 7-blade factory fan 18 inch i think. The temp gauge will touch 200 with a 160 thermostat, but when the clutch engages it will come down to 180-185 real quick, I know that you can't get much wider or taller but the only thing I can say is check on a griffin, I have heard good things about them, except the cost. but you might be looking at a custom 3 core, maybe alumitech can build custom also. I don't know, just thinking and typing here, but I'm sure your timing and tune is right. on the other hand it only costs a little time and a gasket to remove the stat and try that. Jon
Thank you for the input .. I do not run a thermostat, that way between rounds at the track I can just turn on the water pump and fan , to cool it down to 100 or so... Timing is locked out at 36-38 on the motor
theirs only 2 brands i'd reccomend one being alumintech ..think its like 550 w/ofans and about a grand with dual spal fans The other would be champion cooling they have 2 core 3 and 4 core rows for our skylark/gs limited lifetime on rad 1 year warrenty on other items if for some reason it doesnt cool youre app all you have to do is send it back to get a refund, but the 3 and 4 core/row is suppose to cool 900-1000 hp while the 2 core cools around 650..so yea, you have 60 days to return it for any reason you like
May I suggest a custom-made radiator. It obviously costs more, but you can get it made ANY way you want. I had mine made 1" wider than stock, with 11 fins per inch. Oh yeah, did I mention it was a 5-core? I had this done about 15 years ago, and I've never had the slightest regret. It keeps my 455 cool like there is no tomorrow. I ordered it through my local radiator shop. -Bob C.
yea, champion cooling is great for the price/performance ratio, and quality is awsome theirs plenty of resellers on ebay, but if you buy directly, you cant best the customer service. ps they have 14 to 16 fins per inch. 1 3/4 thick cores,tubes was either 3/4 or 1in thick with 3/8 spacing my maverick radiator has been in use for 2.5 years and no signs of problems and cools the 302 excellent the 4 core in my skylark also cool awsome and no problems..installed this one at the end of this past july
I ran a Big End 3 core radiator with a elec pump and grand national fan used to drive all over town. Question Does it run hot on just crusing or stop and go traffic you may hav to play with the carb a bit to put more fuel in at cruising speeds. Im sure it basicall set up for WOT. Just a thought
Huh, I kinda forgot about that. Ya, its been tuned at the track several times, not on the street. We do keep it pretty "lean" i guess. I'll get the new rad and then find a "fat" tune for around town..I used to do that on my bikes so I don't see why not for the car... Great idea :grin:
