Question for you low 10 and sub 10 sec. stock suspended A-body rear suspension

I just got back from Etown, "Buick performance weekend" and have a question? My car went from having great traction with the old engine to no traction with my new Bulldog headed engine. I think the no-hop bars are shocking the rear suspension too hard and causing the tire spin. What are you fast guys using? I think the nohops just aren't going to work for me anymore with the power level I have now. What do you think? My car would leave with the wheels up about 8 inches then break the tires loose and buck like a bronco till the finally caught traction about 330' out. I currently have eurathane bushings, boxed arms, antiroll bar with no-hops. I am considering dumping the bushings for heim joints and removing the no-hops. Seems to be biting way too hard the way it is now. Would love to hear from you guys with setups that work, mine use to but not any more. Thanks

 

I took my no hops off once my car went into the 10s. I found the car was smoother off the gates. The front used to jump up and then it was unloading the suspension. Now I have the HR anti roll bar and the car really jumps more forward before it goes up. I allmost dont get the wheels up as far now but the car is moving out instead of up.

 

It seems that the Anti roll bar and the No hops are working against each other, I never did like those No hops....I'd take them off, and get someone to video tape the car from different sides next time you take it out. I don't run this type rear suspension, but know people who have ditched the no hops as power has increased. What are the 6o foots?? What were they before?? I run southsides, loose junkyard shocks,and stock uppers that are boxed and hole redrilled to get the correct pinion angle, and a stiff right rear spring with air bag, with a 200 shot and a 3600rpm lauch off the trans brake, 60 foots are 1.32. Good luck, keep us updated.

Gary G.
Gary G.

 

Jeff
You're right,Take them off.
There are a few guys in the low 1.30 and even high 1.20 60fts with stock location rear control arms.

How'd it run otherwise?

 

My 60' were horrible, best 1.52 worst 1.62, it use to average high 1.40s. I think it should be deep in the 130s. I think the eurathane bushings probably aren't up to snuff anymore either? The car was leaving so violent, one pass it got out about 60' and it shut off the battery disconnect switch. I thought the engine blew :eek2: . As for how it ran, it went pretty good, didn't tune it really at all. The gearing is off, oil pressure is low so I was shifting at 5400. I think its got alot left in it. :beer

 

Jeff, definitely lose the no-hops and get a good set of adjustable uppers. The track this weekend was mediocre so don't get to discouraged. My car also was hooking and lifting the wheels and then breaking the tires lose also. I usually short a 1.41 or 1.42 and the best I got all weekend was a 1.47. So don't feel bad. The wasn't as good as E-town usually is.
The car looks good and sounds excellent. Good luck on the new combo. :TU:

 

I was pretty sure the no-hops were the problem. Thats good, they weight too much anyway! I am definitly not discouraged, just happy the engine worked well. Have a few bugs to work out ,but it will come around. Shooting for 10.1s, I think it will do it.

Thanks Guys!

 

NEED INFO gremlin

what is your motor combo? i have low to mid 10 sec stuff but cant seem to get out of 11s. really need help. my car is pretty lite. dont know what to do.

 

just take off the bracket...

When you say "no-hops", you mean the upper "add-on" TA brackets or the lower "Southside" type setup?? Either way, ditch 'em. If you have the lowers, then just remove the brackets and use th arms. As for the uppers and lowers, get some type of solid bushings or heim joints. It will go much straighter down the track plus 60ft better.

 

Money???

If it looks like your going to stick a bunch of money in the stock suspension then you may want to look into ladder bars. It would save you some weight since you could get rid of you upper control arms and your anti-roll bar. You could also sell your anti-roll bar setup. Its hard to beat a good ladder bar setup. Just a thought... o No:

 

Rick,
What you said about the upper arms and the bushings is exactly what I am planning, just wanted to make sure I was going the correct route. As for sticking alot of money in my suspension, I dont stick alot of money in anything! p Too cheap! My anti rollbar is a "weld in" very light weight chromoly piece, not the stock crap. I want to keep this car as stock looking as I can. I may ditch the scoop for something less and hubcaps screwed to the wheels. :Brow:

 

Gremlin,
There is a thread on my engine. Take a look under " new 464 coming together" or something like that.

 

Jeff

I agree with Dominic, traction was something to de desired. My 60 foots at Norwalk this year were all in the mid to high 1.20's (best a 1.251). At E-Town this past weekend my best 60 foot was a 1.38 with one being a 1.47! Engine, trans and slicks (only 35 passes on them) were running fine, just kept blowing the tires away.

Your car does luck good and sounds great, maybe we'll see ya at Cecil (much better traction and air).

 

Rick,
Thanks. You Dont know how much I would love to go to Cecil, but the wife and 2 of the 3 kids wont allow it this year :ball: . I will just have to look for the pictures this time again. Next year I am going!

 

Suspension

Jeff,

I agree with the previous posts on ditching the no hops. I'll share what I have learned class racing the last 10 years where the rules are very restrictive and you look at the whole car for et improvements. I have seen cars with the same exact motor vary by .4-.5 just because the 'whole" package was correct. These suggestions are meant for a 95% strip car but individual parts can be used on all cars. As our times improve to the 9's and 10's these are critical to be fast AND consistent. I have seen many fast runs with 100% stock suspension but never any CONSISTENTLY fast cars! Been there and done that.

Front end
Front drag springs; match to weight of car and change every 60-75 runs, more if you tow long distances. The trailer bouncing wears the springs out, not the race track. If car "porpoises" this is first thing I'd look at along with front shocks. $100
Front end travel limiter; adjustable preferred but if you cant use adjustable ( I can't) make sure that your front end lifts up a minimum of 5 inches before the front tire comes off the ground. Cut the snubber if necessary. This is critical! No cost.
Front shocks; Single adjustable shocks are a necessity, double adjustable are preferred. The driver side needs to be tighter than the passenger side on our torque monsters. I'm putting double adjustable coil overs on the Apollo front, hope to 1.25 60' on 9 inch tire. $300-$750

Rear end
Good lower control arms(solid bushings) and adjustable uppers that can be adjusted on car. Anti roll bar.
Pinion angle 1.5-2 degrees down with solid bushings. Any time you make a shock, spring, tire height, etc. change recheck it as it will have changed!
Shocks I am a firm believer in double adjustable rear shocks when you want to be fast. I monitor track temp( conditions including clouds or sun) and shock setting on every run. When track has "bite" I set rebound stiff, bump soft and run 23-25# air in my 9" slicks. Best 60' is 1.26 with consistent 1.30-1.31 times. Weight is 57% on nose of GS. As track conditions changed I adjust suspension more than engine. $400-$600
Rear springs I use Hotchkis 1" lowering springs and change every 60-75 runs also again for same reasons as front.

Misc.
Keep all "sprung " suspension pieces as light as possible and cut as much driveline reciprocating weight as possible. Every 1# of reciprocating weight removed is equal to almost 3# of total weight as far as et is concerned.
Remove all brake drag and make sure car "pushes" easy.
When towing I pump up air bags (only time I use them) and replace race shocks with a set of heavy duty street shocks to take the beating while towing. 15 minutes to change.
Take pics or video of the car at launch to pinpoint problems. Have you every noticed that Arlene takes a video of every run that WJ and Kurt make. I would quess that he has made more passes down a race track than any other 10 of us and yet he still does it. Food for thought.

I am amazed that we all spend a lot of money for more HP but leave the rest of the car as if it was a street car. A good chassis setup is not only worth et and consistency, but is much easier on the car itself, especially 30+ year old street cars.
Jeff, call me if you have any specific questions and I'll try to help. Again, these are just my thoughts, many other ways to skin the cat.

Tom

 

Fantastic input from a guy the goes 9's with the same power alot people have to go 10's..........

"EFFICIENCY" is what I'm trying to add to my car.

 

I definitly agree with Tom. Spring and shock tuning is a nessesity. Too many times we look at the motor and trans. What you need to ask is can my car take the additional power I'm making now and put it to the ground. Being an engine builder, customers are always asking for more power, you give it to them only to find out the car is not setup to handle it. Its the TOTAL PACKAGE.

Rick

 

Tom,

Great information. Do you like the front end to be very loose but only to travel 5" max? A friend of mine has a car that has urethane front bushings. It seems like the front end on his car is a bit tight. What do you think of the urethane bushings?


Guys,

I wonder how much time and $$$ Tom has spent to learn the information he has given to everyone. Thanks Tom, I have printed out the info!!!!!


Later

 

Tom is right,
Thanks for adding you input to the site . Always welcome . I have seen your car at many IHRA events and it is a slick piece .
One thing I wanted to add on the front shocks and wearing them out on the way to the track--- definitly true . One way that I used to combat this before I had a chassis car and began using chassis saver airbags was building wooden ramps that actually butt up against the chassis/A frame. I basically used to "wedge" the car in the trailer and therefore the front suspension could not move. This saved both the shocks and the springs. The morosos wear quickly and I was alway able to increase thier lifespan to over 100 passes after I made the change in the trailer.
If you guys dont think your car is working going down the road to the track -- next time you get to the track feel your shocks . I bet they will be hot.
give it a try-- it saves time swapping them out at the track.
George in DC

 

You guys are great. Good info for all of us rookies out there.