Project HP 69 S/S Skylark

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Graham, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Thanks Gary for the info, I'll research that thoroughly.

    Here is a link for the Buick A-Body suspension kit I ordered and optional airbag kit as I still want it to perform on the street and hook at the track:
    http://www.hotchkis.net/cgi-bin/EDC...catalogno=80006

    This kit drops the car about 1" for a better looking stance.

    With the rear springs being slightly stiffer, there is the possibility it may hurt the launch at the track, but then again it will have slicks on it.

    Anyone have experience with the adjustable upper control arms and still using TA's Traction bar setup? I wonder how it would react concerning the launch and/or 60' times?

    Now I see the difference in the Wolfe Race Craft Parts as a comparison:
    http://www.wolferacecraft.com/SearchResult.aspx
     

    Attached Files:

  2. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    Graham
    Don't take this the wrong way,But.....Don't waste your $ on a suspension kit like that.
    Re-inforced stock arms with an anti-roll device are responsible for alot 3600lb cars going low 1.30 and even into the 1.2x 60 fts
    A "kit" like that is misleading and will do little if anything to achieve the 60 fts you need to go mid 10's w/ your power.

    Here's an example
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Landshark1969

    Landshark1969 1969 GS convertible

    The problem with the compression is and the cam overlap is not enough. The valves are closing early and it,s building pressure very early in the compression stroke. When you have more overlap the exhaust valve is opened longer on the compression stroke and the intake charge is getting sucked out with the exhaust therfore needing more compression, very simlified version of what he is talking about I think!!!! :TU:
     
  4. gdbuick

    gdbuick Well-Known Member

    nice work

    Nice looking setup Graham and thanks for sharing your setup. I'm much further behind than you but I'm building a very similar setup on my 69 GS skylark clone right now. It will running stage 2 al heads, new ta timing cover, SRE pan, girdle and TA 308 cam on pump gas. Block is heading to machine shop soon for the girdle. I also will be installing a stage II hood from VFN. The lexan airpan that Gary fabricated looks great.

    Couple of questions:
    Did the scoop coming already mounted ? and if so did you have to provide the measurements where the scoop would be attached?

    FYI - Love those Molson Dry Canadian brews in the background too!

    Later
    Greg
     
  5. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Gary, I'll take your word on that. Thanks. Unfortunately I was going to cancel the Hotchkis Kit but it was already in transit. I can still utilize the Hotchkis components. I ordered the single antiroll bar from wolfecraft and there is a 2-3 week delivery on them. Will use the Antiroll Bar at the track and as it only takes minutes to install the control linkages.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2006
  6. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    You are right online, Thanks. Now for that compression test data.... :)
     
  7. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Thats right on Greg, Good luck with your project. :TU:

    The hood was ordered right from VFN with the hood scoop already mounted, Yes, I had to provide the measurements from the back of the hood to the back of the scoop. Do you need those? I could dig them up for you.

    I like these quenchers too! :grin:
     

    Attached Files:

  8. gymracer01

    gymracer01 Well-Known Member

    Anti-Roll Bar

    Listen to Gary. PUT an Anti-Roll bar on that car and get rid of that twisting stuff. I played that game with a 68 Skylark for a few years, doing everything with air bags, springs, shocks, moving weight and stiffening up the frame and body. The left side still went for the sky. Went I built the 67, an anti-roll bar was one of the first things to go in it. Best money I ever spent, and a lot safer too. My 2 cents.
    Jim N.
     
  9. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Yes Jim N, Thanks. I am listening to Gary... wisely and diligently. :)

    If I cancel the Hotchkis order the Canadian Distributer will take my $500 deposit. Still can use the new components to replace the 37 yr old ones, which wont interfere with the Anti Roll Bar as Gary suggested I order and install.
     
  10. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Graham,
    Nice car, I kinda like the 69's for some reason. :TU: I am curious to hear what your cranking compression is also. That cam seems real small for 13+ compression. Throw a 308s in there. :TU:
     
  11. 72GSX

    72GSX Well-Known Member

    I would like to see what the psi on a gauge says also. My 9.7 to 1 engine with a 105a poston cam has about 210 psi with engine warm. But I think the 105a has a real early closing intake valve. I had a 413 in my engine for a little while before I switched to the 105a. Its been so long I don't remember what the 413 cranking compression was. I am probably wrong but I think the 413 was about 20 or 25 lbs less than the 105a.
     
  12. MR.BUICK

    MR.BUICK Guest

    Streetability factor...

    You probably already know this, but whenever you do, and if you do, drive this car on the street, or even use it as a daily driver(or hope to), then I must warn you that since you do have a functional stage 2 scoop, you probably shouldn't drive this car in raining or wet conditions. I have a buddy of mine that had a skylark w/ a 455 once that had his motor ruined because he had a functional stage 2 scoop and the car was left out in the rain and eventually the block was cracked! You probably already know this but I am just making sure! :TU:

    By the way, congrats on the results! :TU: Those flow numbers seem pretty consistent! :bglasses: Keep us all updated on it! :Comp:
     
  13. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Thanks for the replys guys. :TU:

    The cold cranking compression numbers are in:

    Does it seem the 413 cam is building too much internal pressure that contrubutes to excess static component forces and wear. :Do No:

    I still believe this 413 cammed 464 engine delivered THE record power numbers.

    I realize the importance of overlap & duration with regards to higher compression engines.
    TA stipulates at least 10:1 for the 413. I needed vacuum and no more than 600 HP due to being non-girdled. My reason for the choice.
    Live and learn. Didn't really want to change the cam, everything is seated in nicely at this point. :Dou:

    Here are the cold cranking compression numbers:

    I misted each cylinder with a mixture of Marval Mystery Oil Top End Lubricant and 10w30 Redline oil. 50/50 mix.

    Cyl Psi
    1 240 2 210
    3 231 4 220
    5 225 6 234
    7 235 8 238

    Average 229.34PSI
    High to low average = 14.3%

    It has been 6 months since the engine ran. Wet test was conducted at 12.C, pre-lubed cold engine. 12 cranks per data reading
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2006
  14. Johnno

    Johnno ASSHOLE

    Lookin good Graham!!! Good luck gettin it to hook!!! I mean there are guys running in the 10's on stock style rear suspensions that can hook it up.......I'm just not one of them, ha, ha, ha. Whenever I flash the converter (whack the gas pedad to the boards) I spin the tires. It sucks cause I'm not really racing when I'm trying to ease the car out of the hole. And I'm talking about an 11 sec car!!!!
     
  15. 87GN_70GS

    87GN_70GS Well-Known Member

    Egad 240 psi ! Run as much octance as you can afford. Or consider retarding the cam. What intake centerline was the cam degreed at?
     
  16. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    Graham - hope you dont mind if I throw this question out there

    Are there any down sides to the Anti-Roll bar when driven on the street ??

    PS Graham - If you want to sell the Hotsckiss rear bar let me know
     
  17. Graham

    Graham Registered User

    Johnno, thanks for the vote of confindence. :) Yea, really lookin forward to spring!

    Scott, The race shop set up the cam and goodies. I know that it was set "straight up". I'll look into the exact figure though.

    Hey Allan, I talked with HR Wolfe Craft Racing Suspensions about the anti roll bar. They indicated lots of guys are using them full time on the street too.
    The Hochkis stuff will not interfere with the antiroll bar.

    If I leave the Anti roll bar hooked up full time, Yes Its only a rendundant piece at that point.

    I'll keep you first inline if you want it, but it only works with the Hotchkis Lower Boxed Control Arms. You'll have to get a set.

    A few pics of an A body Antiswaybar installation:
     

    Attached Files:

  18. GBUICK

    GBUICK ALL THROTTLE

    anti-roll

    Believe it or not, that silver car posted above does not have a "anti-roll bar" on it.
    Stock upper arms with bushings,air bags with 18-25lbs air in the pass side. South Side style lower arms. GSCA street/strip springs, QA1 shocks,Hoosier 30X9 tires, battery on the pass side.
    1.311 60'@ 3625lbs.
     
  19. Jeff Kroeger

    Jeff Kroeger Active Member

    Have You tried....

    Graham,
    Let Me begin by saying that My hat's off to Ya ( for the lack of a better phrase ). That's coming from a avid '68-'69 lover from way back. Your car parallels what I was on the verge of doing before I was forced to pull out of the street / strip scene several years ago. I wish You & Your car the very best. I haven't read this entire thread but plan to real soon. From what I did read / scan I saw no mention of what's below. Keep in mind that I haven't been on this board much / lately. So..what I have to say may be "old technology".

    Have You ever tried Southside Machine's lift bars ? Or...better yet Dick Miller's ( Olds 442 racer ) adjustable links ? The Southside bars have a built-in ( non - adj. ) geometry change and as a friend of mine described " Made the car hook as if the tires were glued to the pavement". This was a stroked small block ( 383-406 ) turbo 350, ford 9 inch, caged, all steel '78 Monte Carlo that ran low 10's on gas and 9.70's on the bottle. The Southside bars were aprx. $ 150 ( Jeg's - Summit ) last time I checked.

    Dick Miller's bars ( or links ) have rod ends on each end so that the user can make "fine -tuned" adjustments to suit how hard the tires hit. Don't quote Me but I think these are around $ 600 for the complete set-up ( upper & lower bars + a possible panhard rod ? ) It's best to check it out for Yourself as My info could possibly be "rusty".

    On one final note....LMW used to ( uncertain if they're still in business ) manufacture a rear cover ( much like TA's ) but with tapped bosses in the cover for axle trusses that reached toward the backing plates with steel collars ( two halves ) wrapping around the axle tube itself ( just inboard of the backing plates ). Keeping the pinion from kicking the 3rd member out the back door.
    I hope this helps and Good Luck, Jeff

    p.s. I live in Illinois ( previously Iowa ) and My motor & trans. went to Canada. Another Canadian bought My Stage 2 heads. I suppose a small part of Me wonders if they'll ( motor or heads ) ever meet up with You at the drags.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2006
  20. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Gary,
    Don't you follow any of the rules! No girdle, ho halo, no anti roll bar, stock rods in the old engine fand running way too fast with them. What is wrong with you! :TU:
     

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